Belfountain ... be nice!

[gonzo 08]

After reading the complaint from the "Belfountain Resident",I am stunned.While I applaud the author's knowledge of what constitutes a Hamlet,and can appreciate their concern over the noise that is caused by some,but certainly not all motocycle traffic. I can even agree to more policing of the area.
What I do not understand is why the local people are trying to close down The Shed. Do you really think closing down a coffee shop will stop motorcyclists from coming to Belfountain? I thought it was the scenery that drew people to your area,not the coffee,but I stand corrected,IT'S THE COFFEE!
You feel you are "infested" by motorcycles,but make no mention of the muscle car rally's who frequent your area.Perhaps the big block muscle cars now have very quiet exhaust systems,as opposed to the dual exhaust,4 barrelled cars of yesteryear.
You point out that "Belfountain should never have been built"what's the basis for this statement? Your answer would indeed get my attention.
Since you live in a Hamlet with no local ammenities,I assume you do most of you shopping in Orangeville? Being an Orangeville resident,I do not like the amount of vehicular traffic in my are.Is it safe to assume that at least some of our traffic is due to out of town people such as yourself? We have our own stores,side walks,sewers etc.and we like it that way.I pay for those things in my taxes for my own use,not for people who think they can frequnt my town,when I'm not welcome in their's.Build yourself a gardenand grow your own food.That way you would not be taking advantage of the ammenities that I have.
Perhaps the Government should ban personal vehicles altogether,then that way Mr./Mrs.Belfountain would be happy...

[inreb]

After reading the complaint from the "Belfountain Resident",I am stunned.While I applaud the author's knowledge of what constitutes a Hamlet,and can appreciate their concern over the noise that is caused by some,but certainly not all motocycle traffic. I can even agree to more policing of the area.
What I do not understand is why the local people are trying to close down The Shed. Do you really think closing down a coffee shop will stop motorcyclists from coming to Belfountain? I thought it was the scenery that drew people to your area,not the coffee,but I stand corrected,IT'S THE COFFEE!
You feel you are "infested" by motorcycles,but make no mention of the muscle car rally's who frequent your area.Perhaps the big block muscle cars now have very quiet exhaust systems,as opposed to the dual exhaust,4 barrelled cars of yesteryear.
You point out that "Belfountain should never have been built"what's the basis for this statement? Your answer would indeed get my attention.
Since you live in a Hamlet with no local ammenities,I assume you do most of you shopping in Orangeville? Being an Orangeville resident,I do not like the amount of vehicular traffic in my are.Is it safe to assume that at least some of our traffic is due to out of town people such as yourself? We have our own stores,side walks,sewers etc.and we like it that way.I pay for those things in my taxes for my own use,not for people who think they can frequnt my town,when I'm not welcome in their's.Build yourself a gardenand grow your own food.That way you would not be taking advantage of the ammenities that I have.
Perhaps the Government should ban personal vehicles altogether,then that way Mr./Mrs.Belfountain would be happy...

Maybe you would reconsider your position if the Belfountain scene were played out in front of your house. Is it so hard to understand where the OP is coming from? Your arguement is like a child lashing out. The sandbox is very big. Spread it out.

[FiReSTaRT]

The only person keeping people out of the sandbox is the Belfountain local. If he doesn't like people, he should move to the Arctic.
I prefer a stealth exhaust setup. I slow down when going through the town and don't ride there at night. I haven't been to his neck of the woods in over a year. But with his post, he reminded me of a very nice coffee shop down there. I should go there and grab a cup.. A few times this season. And bring a few friends

[Brian P]

HI Ya All,

Well I am a resident of Beautiful Belfountain and I want you to hear this side of the story. I will not slander anyone here and hopefully I am allowed to state my piece and not get kicked off.

Nice you had a converstation with the owners of the green building. There is One of Two people, the other being the operator of the Shed who make money while 300 other people in this Hamlet have to suffer with the noise and racing and the ugliness of 100 bikes or more pouring out of that tiny intersection that your crowed has brought here. Yes I know, its not all of you, but if you are not part of the solutiion then you are the problem.
I called Belfountain a hamlet, know what a hamlet is. It is smaller than a village and that we have no services, like water, sewers sidewalks and lighting, and we dont miss these things. But even without the bikes this place can not support even the tourist that have been coming here for years. There is no parking and no washrooms, and no place to put them. Belfountain actually never should have been built, its just not a place that can support "Busy"
Well I will tell you that the residents have had more than enough and a campaign is under way to have the Shed shut down.
One resident last weekend could not do his gardening because of the bikes parked on his frontage, many people have to leave Belfountain because of the extream noise you and your people have infested us with.
We can not stop you from riding here, but at least now we have a cop handing out 110.00 fines for straight pipes. Radar is being increased and the residents will be vigilent in calling the OPP more often.
Just wanted you to know how upsetting this is.
Be safe................. but do be gone

And THAT is indicative of a prejudiced attitude.

We all know that there are *some* people who make excessive noise or travel at excessive speeds. My own observation in Belfountain has been that these are in the extreme minority.

As motorcyclists, every one of us has experienced people waving a finger "slow down" even though we are ALREADY at or below the posted speed limit (and in many cases, going slower than cars, I might add). These are people who simply don't like seeing motorcycles, for whatever excuse they have. I don't have tolerance in return, for people who don't have tolerance towards me.

The roads through Belfountain are public roads. It means that everyone is free to (legally) use them. They are not "your" roads. They are "public" roads. It so happens that it is one of few scenic spots in the area, so many people come. So, people come. By the way, the motorcycle traffic through the year is no match for the leaf-watchers (mostly in cars, sometimes in tour buses that can't make the sharp corner) in fall!

The police presence doesn't bother me as long as the police act fairly. Enforce noise laws ... fair enough. Speed limit through town ... also fair enough. But look out if they start enforcing actually stopping at that stop sign, because 90% of traffic (mostly cars, probably mostly locals) don't come to a complete stop!

If the Shed is driven out of business, people will *still* come, but now *nobody* will make money from the folks coming through.

If your intolerance towards motorcyclists drives you to sell your property ... perhaps one of us will make you an offer!

[inreb]

The only person keeping people out of the sandbox is the Belfountain local. If he doesn't like people, he should move to the Arctic.
I prefer a stealth exhaust setup. I slow down when going through the town and don't ride there at night. I haven't been to his neck of the woods in over a year. But with his post, he reminded me of a very nice coffee shop down there. I should go there and grab a cup.. A few times this season. And bring a few friends

Many a biker B Movie was spun off of that additude. Take your stealth pipe and your buddies and grab a cup. Whoopdeedoo. But why dimminish the citizens legitimate concerns and frustrations?
I could probably paint a hundred unpleasant scenerios with you at the epicentre. What then?
The camp that argues rubbing the Belfountainonians' noses in it won't win the day because, god willing, one day you may own something you don't want violated on a regular basis.

ps, you're not mad at me are you?

[FiReSTaRT]

Many a biker B Movie was spun off of that additude. Take your stealth pipe and your buddies and grab a cup. Whoopdeedoo. But why dimminish the citizens legitimate concerns and frustrations?
I could probably paint a hundred unpleasant scenerios with you at the epicentre. What then?
The camp that argues rubbing the Belfountainonians' noses in it won't win the day because, god willing, one day you may own something you don't want violated on a regular basis.

ps, you're not mad at me are you?

They do NOT own the roads. What they're really doing is telling us not to lawfully enjoy public property because they don't like people there. That would be like me telling the 905'ers that I don't want them in Toronto. Guess what.. They also pay taxes and are entitled to use public property here.
Buddyboy moved to the vicinity of a very nice park and is surprised that people come to enjoy it. That would be like me buying a house next to a mall and telling the patrons that they shouldn't be coming to the mall because I don't like people driving by my house.
Newsflash: I pay taxes and my tax dollars help maintain their roads.
As for my attitude, it's fairly simple.. Leave me alone and I leave you alone. Push me and I push back.

P.S. I'm not mad at you.. While we may not always be in agreement, you present your points in a civilized manner and don't talk out of your rear end. Users that do end up on my ignore list

[inreb]

If I were argueing the letter of the law I'd lose hands down. Of course it's public property and all that.
I just happen to have the quirky ability to put myself into other peoples shoes, is all. These people have been dealing with legitimate frustrations for a very long time.
I know what our camps' position will be. Toe the party line.
Would you like your cul de sac be a mecca for the Hobo Convention? Every weekend? Ya, they may pay road taxes somewhere, so what? We all pay taxes, doesn't give people the right to swarm you.

[FiReSTaRT]

I get that point. Now my beef is that the poster is mostly ****** off at having people there in general. When you live next to a tourist attraction, that's what you can expect. Now I live in a residential area, so having bums around my street would be weird. However, if I moved to one of the condos next to the CN Tower, while I might have a legitimate beef about hobos, they're an expected fixture in the area so I couldn't really start posting on tourism boards begging people not to go see the CN Tower because I don't like having hobos who beg from tourists around.
What they could do is ask the Caledon East OPP detachment for some additional HTA enforcement in the area. That would be a legitimate way to get rid of the problematic riders. Asking all of us to avoid their exclusive little Hamlet is not the right way to go about it.

[inreb]

I get that point. Now my beef is that the poster is mostly ****** off at having people there in general. When you live next to a tourist attraction, that's what you can expect. Now I live in a residential area, so having bums around my street would be weird. However, if I moved to one of the condos next to the CN Tower, while I might have a legitimate beef about hobos, they're an expected fixture in the area so I couldn't really start posting on tourism boards begging people not to go see the CN Tower because I don't like having hobos who beg from tourists around.
What they could do is ask the Caledon East OPP detachment for some additional HTA enforcement in the area. That would be a legitimate way to get rid of the problematic riders. Asking all of us to avoid their exclusive little Hamlet is not the right way to go about it.

I think we're pretty much in agreement but understand that this has been ratcheting up for a very long time. It's not like moving to the airport and being blindsided by the constant brap of propellers.

[shoe]

They do NOT own the roads. What they're really doing is telling us not to lawfully enjoy public property because they don't like people there. That would be like me telling the 905'ers that I don't want them in Toronto. Guess what.. They also pay taxes and are entitled to use public property here.
Buddyboy moved to the vicinity of a very nice park and is surprised that people come to enjoy it. That would be like me buying a house next to a mall and telling the patrons that they shouldn't be coming to the mall because I don't like people driving by my house.
Newsflash: I pay taxes and my tax dollars help maintain their roads.
As for my attitude, it's fairly simple.. Leave me alone and I leave you alone. Push me and I push back.

P.S. I'm not mad at you.. While we may not always be in agreement, you present your points in a civilized manner and don't talk out of your rear end. Users that do end up on my ignore list

http://www.toronto.ca/finance/revenue_tools.htm

Personal Vehicle Tax
Municipal Land Transfer Tax

Did I mention that I live within 2 kilometers of the 401?
I'm going to launch a campaign to have it shut down. The noise and pollution are bothering me.

[Brian P]

What they could do is ask the Caledon East OPP detachment for some additional HTA enforcement in the area. That would be a legitimate way to get rid of the problematic riders.

That is already the case and it has already been going on for years.

As long as precisely the same level of enforcement is applied to all traffic through the area (locals or tourists, bikes or cars) ... I don't have a problem with it. My own beef is that 90+% of cars don't stop at that stop sign, and those aren't all tourists ... (and yes, I stop, and yes, all my bikes have quiet mufflers)

Asking all of us to avoid their exclusive little Hamlet is not the right way to go about it.

Absolutely.

By the way, I have been through the Belfountain area from time to time, for 20 years.

[Nimbus]

Maybe you would reconsider your position if the Belfountain scene were played out in front of your house. Is it so hard to understand where the OP is coming from? Your arguement is like a child lashing out. The sandbox is very big. Spread it out.

Just to put things in a bit of perspective, that area has been attracting motorcyclists for a good half a century, perhaps more and other tourists even longer. Are you also of the opinion airports preceding residents who purchased properties near them, should accommodate the residence, or maybe trains shouldn't sound their horns when passing at crossings because it disturbs the resident who bought the house next door. Let us make things perfectly clear, UNLESS YOU PRECEDED the circumstances, complaining just makes you appear like a moron who failed dismally in doing your homework before making your purchase. These factors reflect on property values, you can't credibly rub your hands at the great deal you figure you got and then whine because of the detractors that determined its value and availability. If this was just a case of Belfountaine suddenly becoming a hot spot, it might be understandable, but this is simply NOT the case, unless you have been a resident of the hamlet since the invention of the automobile then you should shut the **** up, you personify a mindless NIMBY. Now I realize you aren't the resident or author and only responded in their defense, I'm simply pointing out why you shouldn't have come to their defense.

[inreb]

Just to put things in a bit of perspective, that area has been attracting motorcyclists for a good half a century, perhaps more and other tourists even longer. Are you also of the opinion airports preceding residents who purchased properties near them, should accommodate the residence, or maybe trains shouldn't sound their horns when passing at crossings because it disturbs the resident who bought the house next door. Let us make things perfectly clear, UNLESS YOU PRECEDED the circumstances, complaining just makes you appear like a moron who failed dismally in doing your homework before making your purchase. These factors reflect on property values, you can't credibly rub your hands at the great deal you figure you got and then whine because of the detractors that determined its value and availability. If this was just a case of Belfountaine suddenly becoming a hot spot, it might be understandable, but this is simply NOT the case, unless you have been a resident of the hamlet since the invention of the automobile then you should shut the **** up, you personify a mindless NIMBY. Now I realize you aren't the resident or author and only responded in their defense, I'm simply pointing out why you shouldn't have come to their defense.

Whats all this about airports and trains and horns and precedence??? I'm not a frikkin retard.

Are you the guy on the V Rod with wrapped headers and NO muffler or you sportin the simularily afflicted VTX 1800? What's with the additude? Beat it punk( not you, I just like the mental imagery)

Let me ask you this, Mr. Squatter Rights, does it matter if you bought your charming domicile 2 wks or 50 yrs ago if I start my lawn mower under your bedroom window every Saturday morning @ 7 AM because I legally can? I'm still a dick of the first order.

I'd be much less inclined to jump to Belfountains defense if there was no (or minimal) history of racer road and people made a decent attempt to quell the racket. In fact the opposite is true, 20grand/50hp cruisers ridden by 50yr. old psuedo Brandos with straight pipes seem to be the norm. THATS RETARDED.

Have you seen how big brother works? We're all gonna pay for this mess, probably sooner than later. I don't have a stock exhaust on my scoot, like a little kid, vroom vroom noises make me giddy with delight. But it's not RETARD loud. When the time comes that I have to run a certified stock factory exhaust system I'll know who to blame (fatstuff on the Fatboy)

Other than that alls cool

[El Zilcho]

Yes I know, its not all of you, but if you are not part of the solutiion then you are the problem.

Sure.

Most of the population of the planet is not a part of the solution. What's next---are you going to petition the UN to handle your "hamlet-that-shouldn't-have-been-built-now-can't-handle-the-tourist-traffic" issue?

[GSXMAER]

praytell

we just RIPPED through there on Friday night.....I was so nice...we did it TWICE

and stopped in ACROSS from the shack...the old house

ITS open AS A CAFE....2 corners out of three....catering to TOURISTS

[CBRJOHN]

Newsflash: I pay taxes and my tax dollars help maintain their roads.

Actually, Thanks to Mike Harris and Downloading, No you don't.
The townships and counties pay for the maintenance of the local county roads. Until the last year and the infrastructure funding the province didn't help at all.

I started riding the Forks in the early 80's , there was never the volume of bikes like there is now.

Same thing is happening here on River Road, People are trying to get the speed limit all the way from Hornings Mills to Airport Rd reduced to 40KPH. Some areas have already been reduced from 60kph to 50kph. They're putting a lot of pressure on council, and it is a election year.

I was having a beer at a friends in Terra Nova yesterday, 90% of the bikes would slow right down going through the Hamlet.

One group of about 7 Sportbikes blasted through at about 160kph, coming very close to hitting a kid. They're very lucky they didn't make a return pass because the kids dad was sitting in a loader/backhoe waiting to pull out in front of them if they did. If it happened there would have been no way for them to stop. Idiots like these are the same ones who park it in all the corners.

There's another local road here someone has been dumping black sand on as well this year. You can't see it until you're on it.

It's really simple, slow down in populated areas, don't ride through them at 12,000rpm with a race exhaust. Show some respect.

This is why I don't show anyone the many good unpopulated, unpatrolled local roads around here. Idiots just ruin them.

[FiReSTaRT]

It's really simple, slow down in populated areas, don't ride through them at 12,000rpm with a race exhaust. Show some respect.

I'm not sure how it goes with "hamlets" or if any of our money also goes on maintaining roads in unincorporated areas.
No race exhaust and I do slow down when going through populated areas. My beef is with the OP for telling all of us not to come to his neck of the woods. Having only done the forks 6-7 times, I'm sure that he racked up more miles on Toronto roads than I did in BF.
Unless he separates from Canada and forms his own country, he has no right to tell any Canadian not to lawfully enjoy the sights and twisties in his precious little hamlet.
By the way, if I ever catch anyone laying obstacles on a road, I hope I'll have enough self-control to just call the cops on the prick and have them handle it.

[El Zilcho]

One group of about 7 Sportbikes blasted through at about 160kph, coming very close to hitting a kid. They're very lucky they didn't make a return pass because the kids dad was sitting in a loader/backhoe waiting to pull out in front of them if they did.

Actually everybody was lucky they weren't going the other way right after these guys. They would have paid the price.

There's another local road here someone has been dumping black sand on as well this year. You can't see it until you're on it.

So is that what it's coming to? That's nothing short of criminal activities.

It's really simple, slow down in populated areas, don't ride through them at 12,000rpm with a race exhaust. Show some respect.

In the light of what you just described it doesn't seem to matter all that much. Respect is not going to protect you from sand on the road. It only takes one idiot for anyone else to be on the hook. I seems that these roads with all the desperate people living around them are probably to be avoided.

[CBRJOHN]

So is that what it's coming to? That's nothing short of criminal activities.

Unfortunately, Yes. People are fed up and the cops won't even patrol a lot of the roads. Even though the township pays them a lot for policing services. They stick to the main roads.. Higher volumes = Higher ticket counts.

I've swept up 3 spots myself this year when I've seen them. I called the cops about it and all they said was there was nothing they could do unless they saw it happening, Call Public Works.

In the light of what you just described it doesn't seem to matter all that much. Respect is not going to protect you from sand on the road. It only takes one idiot for anyone else to be on the hook. I seems that these roads with all the desperate people living around them are probably to be avoided.

Particularly on the weekends.. Most of the ones who are the idiots are the ones from Toronto that buy a weekend place in the country thinking it's all peace, quiet and harmony and then are all upset when it's not.

Even the Real Estate agents up here show houses during the week when it's quiet. The weekend is full of the sounds of bikes, cars, tractors, weedeaters etc

[turbodish]

So is that what it's coming to? That's nothing short of criminal activities.

Really? What would the charge be? Littering?

Respect is not going to protect you from sand on the road.

No, but more reasonable speeds might, in which case the residents achieve their objective without adversely impacting the more leisurely riders.

I regularly run into sand and gravel on the 15th Sideroad, and have never had it upset my ride. Then again, I don't run that road as if it were a test track.