Reply With QuoteNo.Originally Posted by Rob MacLennan
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Moderator
Two words kill your theory; abet and assist.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
No.
It just means I won't be riding with any "hooligans". I can get into enough trouble on my own, and don't need any help. Choose your riding buddies carefully.
I'll be watching this one with interest. I think any good defense lawyer will go after the eyewitness accounts to create doubt as to if they were actually engaged in a contest or speeding.
Can't we settle this over a pint?
For a "dangerous driving" conviction the "contest" part doesn't matter. If the guy admitted to having been at the scene, it may be more complicated for him (and his lawyer).
I enjoy listening to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven.
Moderator
It matters for the specific charge, as it was "street racing causing death." There is a separate charge for dangerous driving causing death, absent street racing.
To a layman, two bikes travelling in the same direction, at speed, looks like a race. That is the way witnesses are likely to describe the event.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
.... and the never ending chorus line of under-informed, under educated, and overly entitled whiners. Most of whom got that way by having their ***** wiped by mom for a few years too many.
I now find these threads actually humorous. I used to take them seriously, but no one is here for INFO. LORD NO. They are here to try to make themselves sound smart. Or tough. Or...
Watching those who get all their info from the first 5 pages of The Sun, try to intellectually waddle their way through understanding governance of large groups of people.
Turbo..you have the torch.
Last edited by dankyyz; 04-05-2010 at 08:00 AM.
I do not feel it's fair to charge the rider with the other's death. He was riding with him, yes, and his speed could have contributed to the other riders speed, however he did not directly cause death. If the rider was on the back of his motorcycle then yes that would be cause for death, but the actions of the passed rider were not a direct result of the charged riders actions.
Cause should (and does) mean that one person's actions DIRECTLY, in every situation of the event, change the consequences of the other person. In this case, if the charged driver accelerated, it did not directly cause the other rider to accelerate. Encouragement is a completely different case that some have been describing and I don't believe encouragement is a cause for charges. If your guidance counselor told you to race cars and you died as a result, he/she isn't held accountable. Distant comparison, but closer than the shooting examples.
Another question related to this topic: You're riding home at 2am and you see a bike in the ditch on an on-ramp and nobody is around. You stop to check on the rider/call an ambulance, now you could be charged with these acts as you have no proof you were not with the rider when they crashed. I think that's BS.
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'02 ZX6R
Moderator
I think that, in a case like this, a charge of racing might be supported by witness statements. As you say, racing causing death is a bit of a stretch. It's typically reserved for cases in which an innocent third party is the one killed, as in the cases previously linked by another poster.
I think, no matter what, you stop for another rider or even for a car driver. That's basic human decency. Let the chips fall where they may. I'm not permitted to use the language here that I'd like to, regarding riders who would go as far as to knowingly leave an injured or dying riding companion laying at the roadside.Another question related to this topic: You're riding home at 2am and you see a bike in the ditch on an on-ramp and nobody is around. You stop to check on the rider/call an ambulance, now you could be charged with these acts as you have no proof you were not with the rider when they crashed. I think that's BS.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
I agree, I would never leave a rider down. I was just pointing out that the law is unjust for those scenarios in which you actually are not at fault whatsoever. A criminal record for being a good human is a little much.
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'02 ZX6R
I get that, but in what way, this man was in control of NO ONES motorcycle but his own, if i invite you too my house for a game of Grand theft auto and you steal a car and start running people down i get charged ..huh ! the suspended licence ticket i can understand that, but these other charges are classic over zealous behavior and want to get you attitude when it comes sport riders and police..
Moderator
Actually that was my point
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Gotcha.. Well im glad we are on the same page ..Actually that was my pointwhat i think we have here is the police are trying to make an example of this guy for others to reflect on, which is totally unfair and unreasonable for the guy that has been charged..
Moderator
Let's see what he gets convicted of, when it actually comes to trial in a year or two.Gotcha.. Well im glad we are on the same page ..
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
My guess is driving under suspension..but it will be interesting too see if the courts further this making an example of the rider or stop it at that level..and even if he wins he still losses through lawyer fee's ..etc
Moderator
I think that there's a very real chance that he could be convicted under CCC 249.4 - Dangerous operation of motor vehicle while street racing (without causing death), based on what the witnesses will likely say in support of it. A plea to simple Dangerous Operation might be the best way to go. I'm betting that this case will be plead out.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Yea i see what your saying, if the witness shows i could definitely see that happening also...
Pretty much a given, charge as many offences as you can and let the negotiations begin. The sooner the Canadian system starts taking a dim view on overloaded indictments the better.... it will stop all this negitiations rubbish and force Crowns to charge the substantive offence..... and take a huge chunk out of the legal aid bill.
But in the grand scheme of things with this case, only two people really know what was intended that night and one of them is DEAD.
Been a great holiday weekend, but with the amount of reckless riding I've witnessed on the roads this weekend there's no wonder the police and law makers have a hard on for motorcycists and my insurance rates have gone up again this years despite 30 years of riding without a single ticket.
Yea. Lets hope the people who actually saw the event don't show. LOL.
You can come ride with us scooter folks
There was a poster on this forum that saw the 2 riders going in excessive speed on Mavis. Would he be a credible witness to the circumstances leading up to the event? I think he even said he saw what the riders looked like.
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