street racer did not get charged with street racing?

[82Seca750]

It's called accountability for your contributions to the bad acts that result in tragedy.

In the Jane Creba shooting, two people were convicted of 2nd degree murder and 2 more convicted of manslaughter, even though only one of them fired that actual shot that hit her. The rest were convicted because they contributed to the environment that led to the fatal shot.

Then there's the person who shot the strip club bouncer on Yonge Street. The shooter got convicted of second degree murder, but the friend who did nothing but egg him on also got a manslaughter conviction out of it even though he never touched the gun.

drivel imo is associating two sport bike riders getting on it on the street, with gangsters firing guns in the downtown core

but then that's what the social engineers would like us all to think

here's a scenario for you to chomp on...cause I've experienced this endless times

while leaving countless hot-rod shows, there is typically a group of youngsters standing at the exit encouraging the drivers to get on it hard when they leave.....and the results are what you would assume

so let's say one of the drivers obliging the encouragement of a 15 year old kid ends up losing it into a lamp post and kills himself

I guess the social engineers would then want to charge the 15 year old kid criminally for his contributions to the bad acts that result in tragedy right?

the charges laid against this rider reek with the same kind of stench coming from cases happening in the UK

imo....unless this rider admitted to the Police that he consciously did something to intentionally cause the other rider to crash and burn...then the charges are just a political pantload

[Rob MacLennan]

It's called accountability for your contributions to the bad acts that result in tragedy.

In the Jane Creba shooting, two people were convicted of 2nd degree murder and 2 more convicted of manslaughter, even though only one of them fired that actual shot that hit her. The rest were convicted because they contributed to the environment that led to the fatal shot.

Then there's the person who shot the strip club bouncer on Yonge Street. The shooter got convicted of second degree murder, but the friend who did nothing but egg him on also got a manslaughter conviction out of it even though he never touched the gun.

I suppose you're going to whine about that too?

By witness reports they were racing together. That means that each had a contribution to the outcome. Had the crash killed an innocent third party and not the rider, both would have been on the hook for that too, like these losers. http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...orcycle-stunts


More drivel. The survivor has been charged. He'll get his day in court. Maybe you should offer to defend him and prove to the court how he bears no responsibility at all for what happened that night.

The Creba shooting is a poor analogue. Jane Creba was an innocent bystander, who was killed due to the actions of third parties. The same applies in the shooting of John O'Keefe. Presumably this rider was killed as the result of his own actions.

[turbodish]

I think the point of the discussion is the cops cannot know or prove that they were racing. Unless somehow a recording taken before the ride miraculously shows up or video shot during the ride will surface up ... so if we agree on that, it means that everytime +2 riders ride together and one of them crashes, it makes the other(s) ....

Irrelevant whether they really were or not. You just cannot prove that in most cases ...

Except for witness statements that the two bikes were seen together on Mavis Rd weaving back and forth through traffic at sustained high speed for some distance before the actual crash location. Walk like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, probably is a duck.

[BusaBob]

Well this is what makes me wonder. You're on the way to Timmies with a buddy or two, you hit the on-ramp to the DVP with some speed, nothing too horrific since the limit on the on-ramp is 100km/h, buddy messes up in some way, bins it and dies. So you could be charged with something up to life in prison for that? I mean, really? Kinda makes me wonder about ANY kind of group ride..

this is one of the reasons i'm leary of group rides with strangers.

i think most people can tell when a couple guys are racing down a road, even if it isn't a "contest" it is certainly a display of group speeding.

[turbodish]

The Creba shooting is a poor analogue. Jane Creba was an innocent bystander, who was killed due to the actions of third parties. The same applies in the shooting of John O'Keefe. Presumably this rider was killed as the result of his own actions.

The point is that in each case, the death was a wrongful death. Even if one death was in part self-inflicted, the bad act contributions of other players to those deaths is relevant and culpable.

This rider died as a result of not only his own actions, but also because of the actions of the other rider. The two riders together created the situational environment that caused the crash to happen, and according to reports they did it by operating far beyond the reasonable norms of traffic in that area. It's perfectly reasonably that the survivor be brought to account for his part in the death, just like these guys were. http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...orcycle-stunts.

[Rob MacLennan]

Again, a situation in which an innocent bystander was killed.

[Draco'sWrath]

Police tactics 101.

This is a message.

Charges won't stick. Doesn't matter.

This guy was chosen to be made an example of and send a message, loud and clear to the rest of us crotch rocketing hooligans.

They're starting a crack down, they over-hype one incident thereby obtaining the justifiable means to blitz everyone.

More tickets, more charges, more fines, more jail-time, more suspensions, more impounding.

Keeps cops busy/generating funds, keeps courts busy/creating jobs, lawyers, judges, cops, JP's, tow trucks, storage lots, Ministry of Transport, jails, prisons, prison guards, court officers, clerks, and on and on and on.

All in the name of Law, which for most dumbed down proletariats is justice in itself. Sheep away, sheepy sheeps.

I may not "race" on the streets, but it's not because I feel I'm committing a crime or John Q. Public finds me odious/criminal or because "It's the law". I don't race because I choose not to, if someone does choose to race and they know/willing to deal with the consequences...more power to ya

I won't be groveling like a pig at the trough when they sentence you/burn you at the stake like the righteous ...I'll still be the guy on the side line shaking my head at the human race.

[BusaBob]

The point is that in each case, the death was a wrongful death. Even if one death was in part self-inflicted, the bad act contributions of other players to those deaths is relevant and culpable.

This rider died as a result of not only his own actions, but also because of the actions of the other rider. The two riders together created the situational environment that caused the crash to happen, and according to reports they did it by operating far beyond the reasonable norms of traffic in that area. It's perfectly reasonably that the survivor be brought to account for his part in the death, just like these guys were. http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...orcycle-stunts.

well put.

i liken it to a couple kids playing with matches. one of them drops the match and the house burns. are both responsible? sure.

[Mistero2009]

well put.

i liken it to a couple kids playing with matches. one of them drops the match and the house burns. are both responsible? sure.

I'd agree with you if they had contributed to a death of a third-party.
But can you blame one if the other burnt his fingers???

In any canse, I think we're wasting energy on groundless speculation!

[toybm]

These arguments are really a moot point, problem is the wider public still thinks that most motorcyclist are a problem and would have no problem believing and supporting the charges handed out to this individual.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron.../13456706.html

I somehow agree to some extent that the other rider has some shared resposibility, although I would hate to be riding along my merry way and some ****** unknowingly runs off the road behind me - I know, can't have it both ways but note that I didn't say racing along or trying to show which one of us could piss the furthest. It does appear that there was a pissing contest or a lets go out and piss about at the very least.

All this crap, police being able to conveniently find something to f.. you with if they really wanted to, are just added reasons to justify me not riding on the street anymore.

[BusaBob]

Again, a situation in which an innocent bystander was killed.

moral indignation aside, in the court of law, IIRC, there is no bearing on "innocent bystander"...all that matters is that someone died, "wrongfully".

[BusaBob]

...

[BusaBob]

These arguments are really a moot point

Yes

problem is the wider public still thinks that most motorcyclist are a problem and would have no problem believing and supporting the charges handed out

Absolutely. That is the problem. So let's all stop treating busy public roads as personal racetracks.

[BusaBob]

Police tactics 101.

This is a message.

Charges won't stick. Doesn't matter.

This guy was chosen to be made an example of and send a message, loud and clear to the rest of us crotch rocketing hooligans.

They're starting a crack down, they over-hype one incident thereby obtaining the justifiable means to blitz everyone.

More tickets, more charges, more fines, more jail-time, more suspensions, more impounding.

Keeps cops busy/generating funds, keeps courts busy/creating jobs, lawyers, judges, cops, JP's, tow trucks, storage lots, Ministry of Transport, jails, prisons, prison guards, court officers, clerks, and on and on and on.

All in the name of Law, which for most dumbed down proletariats is justice in itself. Sheep away, sheepy sheeps.

I may not "race" on the streets, but it's not because I feel I'm committing a crime or John Q. Public finds me odious/criminal or because "It's the law". I don't race because I choose not to, if someone does choose to race and they know/willing to deal with the consequences...more power to ya

I won't be groveling like a pig at the trough when they sentence you/burn you at the stake like the righteous ...I'll still be the guy on the side line shaking my head at the human race.

i hear ya. you can borrow my tinfoil hat when i'm finished with it...on second thought, i'll make another one for you.
(jk)

[BusaBob]

I'd agree with you if they had contributed to a death of a third-party. But can you blame one if the other burnt his fingers???

In any canse, I think we're wasting energy on groundless speculation!

he didn't just burn his fingers. he got killed. and in my family, you can believe both boys would be punished even if one of them just burnt his fingers

yes.

[Mistero2009]

moral indignation aside, in the court of law, IIRC, there is no bearing on "innocent bystander"...all that matters is that someone died, "wrongfully".

Courts don't know whether the person died "wrongfully" or "accidentally". They rely on the Crown to bring a valid case/charge to light!

IIRC, a person can be charged for trying to kill themselves (i.e. attempting suicide). it's in the books.

You don't recall correctly!

[Mistero2009]

he didn't just burn his fingers. he got killed. and in my family, you can believe both boys would be punished even if one of them just burnt his fingers

yes.

You failed to see my logic which was a person is responsible for perils of his own creation. Unless the other rider had anything to do with the accident/death the death is really accidental!

[BusaBob]

You failed to see my logic which was a person is responsible for perils of his own creation. Unless the other rider had anything to do with the accident/death the death is really accidental!

the two were riding aggressively together. the responsibility is held jointly.
if they wanted to ride like that, take it to the track.

[Rossi86]

How do you know? Maybe they were racing? I am not a big law and order guy, but sometimes it amazes me how people can presume what happens with no facts. And even from what we don't know the presumptions seem a little weak. What we know: Other rider had no license. Other rider left the scene. I am not saying he had to stay (unless there was contact), but would you take off if another rider went down, even if you didn't know the guy? Most riders will turn around if they see a rider on the side of the road, even if he looks OK.

Most likely they were on a spirited ride, and the other took off after the accident since his license was suspended.

But even if they were racing (i.e constatly trying to overtake each-other to be first) unless the guy who took off was directly involved in the accident like pushing the other rider off the road on purpose he has no responsibility whatsoever for the other rider's death. The rider who died was an adult who is 100% responsible for his own actions. What he did that caused the outcome is entirely his responsibility, no one forced him to race, or even ride with the other person. Charging the survivor with the other rider's death is pure BS. The want to blame someone in this case and they chose him to make an example.

[eastcoast_gsx]

This rider died as a result of not only his own actions, but also because of the actions of the other rider. The two riders together created the situational environment that caused the crash to happen, and according to reports they did it by operating far beyond the reasonable norms of traffic in that area.

Such horse****.

He could have rolled off the throttle any time he wanted to...

Seca is right, you are just trying to give the bs angle.

PS: Bryant could have hit the brakes instead of the throttle as well.

Creba couldn't have done anything different... (besides not being there) so it is not even a close comparison.