Had court for 170km 'stunting' ticket today.. detailed trial inside!

[turbodish]

"On a track day you can back off at any time you feel you're getting in over your head"??? Then, why do "well-experienced" people crash?

"Oil spills are cleaned up, potholes fixed"...

Just one quick question, do u actually ride a bike?
Have u done a track day?

Yes.

Yes.

The only thing keeping you from backing off on a track day is ego, nothing else. Race tracks generally get a lot more frequent repair and clean-up attention than a typical public street. Sessions are routinely shut down to deal with major debris on track, and routinely delayed so track workers can pick up/sweep up crap before the next session goes out. The same cannot be said of public streets.

[AdReNaLiNe99]

Going into the case myself gave me a lot of insight into how the whole system is structured, and it gave me an idea of how to better prepare for next time.

You have Learned NOTHING by getting this ticket. There shouldn't be a "Next Time".

Next time at 170km/hr, you might end up under the trucks you were passing. Why don't people understand some of these laws are there to stop us from being idiots and possibly save our lives.

Be a Safer and smarter rider. There are tracks and drag strips that allow bikes for this sort of stuff.

And you realize that by being caught doing things like this it just brings MORE HEAT onto us riders? The OPP and Local smokies already have a hard on for us.

[MarcosSantiago]

If you own a bike, if you know others that ride, if you have been around long enough, why are you even arguing about this (that more and more people will run from the cops)?

Of course people will run.
Hell, people would not stop for the cops even BEFORE the street racing law...

Yes.

Yes.

The only thing keeping you from backing off on a track day is ego, nothing else. Race tracks generally get a lot more frequent repair and clean-up attention than a typical public street. Sessions are routinely shut down to deal with major debris on track, and routinely delayed so track workers can pick up/sweep up crap before the next session goes out. The same cannot be said of public streets.

[turbodish]

If you own a bike, if you know others that ride, if you have been around long enough, why are you even arguing about this (that more and more people will run from the cops)?

Of course people will run.
Hell, people would not stop for the cops even BEFORE the street racing law...

Sure, there are those who will run but not everyone who rides a bike is a criminal or wants to become one.

The odds are going more and more in favour of the cops every day. I've no sympathy for anyone who wants to make this particular roll of the dice, and neither do most other law-abiding vehicle operators out there.

[NewfieBoy]

He tried man. Not many other defences for 170 clicks when your caught red handed.
How many demerit points btw?

that might be the worst defense I have ever heard.

[ariesmars]

I read the article the OP linked to. How long were you speeding? Maybe you could have used the 'I was passing a speeding, swerving truck defense' or say 'my speedo wasn't working' or both. If the cop couldn't prove the amount of time you were speeding for, it might work no?

[toysareforboys]

or say 'my speedo wasn't working'

Lol... "Your honour. My speedo wasn't working. The only speed I would know for sure is hitting the rev limiter in 6th gear, that's 291km/h, and I was well below that."

That'd be sweet

-Jamie M.

[PolishPower]

He tried man. Not many other defences for 170 clicks when your caught red handed.
How many demerit points btw?

The judge never mentioned anything about demerit points, so i assume none

[Rob MacLennan]

The judge never mentioned anything about demerit points, so i assume none

It would be worth pulling a license abstract in a month or so, just to be on the safe side.

[82Seca750]

Yes.

Yes.

The only thing keeping you from backing off on a track day is ego, nothing else. Race tracks generally get a lot more frequent repair and clean-up attention than a typical public street. Sessions are routinely shut down to deal with major debris on track, and routinely delayed so track workers can pick up/sweep up crap before the next session goes out. The same cannot be said of public streets.

good to hear there Turbo

why don't you post a pick of you and your bike in the appropriate section of this site

even better...make an appearance at club events and/or charity rides....introduce yourself....all that fun stuff....heck, start a thread and be the guy who leads the donations for the 2010 ride for site

ya know...get out there and spread the word

at worst......show up to an event in whatever....make yourself known and make a nice donation

[rmemedic]

All I can see this law doing is pushing people to run that normally wouldn't have. You don't have much more to lose at that point.

[Superbike911]

I hope you learned your lesson. Don't speed over 50Km over the speed limit. I get booked for going 137km in 401 last october. I am still fighting it, and hoping to not lose 4 points. Also 401 is crawling with OPP, you should have never gone that fast in 401, even you feel like speeding go up to 40km, or go to other smaller highways up north (that's what I did last week).170km was excessive speed and justice was served. You live and learn...

[PHIERCE]

All I can see this law doing is pushing people to run that normally wouldn't have. You don't have much more to lose at that point.

I think your correct most will run these days ! If the cop is out of his car most will run.

[turbodish]

All I can see this law doing is pushing people to run that normally wouldn't have. You don't have much more to lose at that point.

Not much more to lose?

I'd think that turning a harsh but still simple HTA traffic ticket into jail, fine, criminal record AND the original traffic ticket is a whole lot more to lose.

[Brian P]

That's a matter of perspective. For someone that depends on their driver's license but isn't blessed with enormous financial reserves to pay the lawyers and the fine and the high insurance for years to come, an HTA 172 event could be a life-destroying event. And if THAT is the case, there is a balance of probabilities to be weighed in an instant.

If you only have $1000, it doesn't matter if the courts fine you $1000 or $10,000 or $100,000. You're done.

How many life sentences did Bernie Madoff get? Is that really any harsher than one life sentence?

[PHIERCE]

Not much more to lose?

I'd think that turning a harsh but still simple HTA traffic ticket into jail, fine, criminal record AND the original traffic ticket is a whole lot more to lose.

for a minor ticket sure stop but for hta 172 ur in the same league, 2k for impound, lawyer fees, fines, than insurance bending you over for god knows how long without any lube take the chance and run run run ! ur busted anyways how much worse can it really get ? ok you could die thats about it or possible jail time ? tough choice to be made in a split second.

[turbodish]

for a minor ticket sure stop but for hta 172 ur in the same league, 2k for impound, lawyer fees, fines, than insurance bending you over for god knows how long without any lube take the chance and run run run ! ur busted anyways how much worse can it really get ? ok you could die thats about it or possible jail time ? tough choice to be made in a split second.

Well, the costs can get much higher even if you don't die.

If you run and are caught, you will also be charged at minimum with flight from police, and quite easily with dangerous driving as well. Both are grounds for towing and impounding your vehicle not just for 7 days, but right up until your trial if the judge at your bail hearing sees fit to do so, and they often do.

Also, both are criminal offences that carry jail time, substantial fines and license suspensions on conviction. This will be over and above any HA172 penalties.

Because you're looking at criminal charges, you'll now be paying a real lawyer for a criminal defence, and that costs a whole lot more than paying a paralegal to look after a simple HTA172 ticket. Plus with the running you get the bonus prize of a criminal record on conviction and that can have long-term if not permanent repercussions on employment and travel.

God help you if someone is injured or killed along the way. You would be then looking at years in jail or prison, years of license suspension after that, plus you'll be wide open for some heavy civil lawsuits.

If the worry was about not being able to deal with the consequences of an HTA172 conviction, you should be petrified of the consequences if you're caught running. THAT could truly become a life destroying event.

[bear22099]

That's a matter of perspective. For someone that depends on their driver's license but isn't blessed with enormous financial reserves to pay the lawyers and the fine and the high insurance for years to come, an HTA 172 event could be a life-destroying event. And if THAT is the case, there is a balance of probabilities to be weighed in an instant.

If you only have $1000, it doesn't matter if the courts fine you $1000 or $10,000 or $100,000. You're done.

How many life sentences did Bernie Madoff get? Is that really any harsher than one life sentence?

Consecutive life sentences will negate the probability of early release. Having $1000 today does not mean that you will never have any more money either. They will happily take payments for the rest of your life for the rest.

The trick to all this is to not do the crime in the first place. It is actually that easy.

[Brian P]

... unless you get tagged by an officer falsifying the charges, and that HAS HAPPENED and the officer was caught. How many more times is that happening but the officer hasn't been caught?

[Rob MacLennan]

Well, the costs can get much higher even if you don't die.

If you run and are caught, you will also be charged at minimum with flight from police, and quite easily with dangerous driving as well. Both are grounds for towing and impounding your vehicle not just for 7 days, but right up until your trial if the judge at your bail hearing sees fit to do so, and they often do.

Also, both are criminal offences that carry jail time, substantial fines and license suspensions on conviction. This will be over and above any HA172 penalties.

Because you're looking at criminal charges, you'll now be paying a real lawyer for a criminal defence, and that costs a whole lot more than paying a paralegal to look after a simple HTA172 ticket. Plus with the running you get the bonus prize of a criminal record on conviction and that can have long-term if not permanent repercussions on employment and travel.

God help you if someone is injured or killed along the way. You would be then looking at years in jail or prison, years of license suspension after that, plus you'll be wide open for some heavy civil lawsuits.

If the worry was about not being able to deal with the consequences of an HTA172 conviction, you should be petrified of the consequences if you're caught running. THAT could truly become a life destroying event.

I tend to agree regarding the stupidity of turning a charge under the HTA into a Criminal Code offence, but there are two factors at work that mitigate this:

1) Given the increase in penalties received pre/post court findings in the matter, a first time offender may get off lighter when he runs.

2) In all likelihood a person who is halfway skilled at riding WILL get away.