Need your help - riding in Europe

[aces high]

Hi guys/gals;

I'm turning 40 next year and I plan to celebrate by flying to Europe, probably Geneva, renting a bike and spending upwards of a week there. My plans are in the early stages but it looks like I'll go from Geneva over to the northern side of France, then to Germany and back to Geneva. I also plan to spend a day in the Swiss Alps. I've never been to Europe, so anyone that can give me any tips would be great. I also need to find a good place to rent a bike.

Thanks in advance of any help.

[Brian P]

I did an organized trip with Beach's www.bmca.com and it was REALLY good.

Mainland Europe is a really good place to be on a bike. there are LOTS of bikes on the back roads.

Random thoughts:

If you want to do the high mountain passes (and trust me, you want to), watch out for the dates that they are open. At high altitudes, the snow never goes away, and some of the best passes (Sustenpass, Furkapass, St Gothards pass but I'm talking about the old cobblestone road, not the motorway) may not open until May or June.

You want a relatively small, light bike. I had a BMW F800ST and it was really good. Some of the hairpin turns make Forks of the Credit or Rattlesnake Point look like a cake walk, and there is hairpin after hairpin after hairpin.

Don't overestimate the number of kilometers you can do in a day of mountain passes. After 250 or 300 km, I was beat. And 250 km at the bike's wheels is a lot less than that as the crow flies.

You need an international driver's license with a motorcycle endorsement. You can get this at CAA. Pay attention to the international road sign booklet that they give you!

Forget North American "blocking position" riding. Small backroads in europe are often one lane - but not one direction. You are expected to take up as little space on the road as practical - bikes are expected to go to the extreme right edge (or left in UK). Car drivers treat bikers with much more respect over there than they do here, just be aware that the car driver (or bus driver or truck driver) expects you to be taking up only the right edge of the road, so if there is room to get by, they WILL. As long as you do what you are expected to do, it isn't a problem. And, you are expected to signal EVERYthing. Moving away from the right edge to pass a bicycle or pedestrian? signal. The person behind you who was about to overtake YOU, needs to know that! They WILL respect your signal, though - unlike here.

Watch out for speed cameras ... speed limits generally make more sense (i.e. higher) in europe than they do here BUT in Switzerland, they grant you 3 km/h above the posted limit - THAT'S IT - then you're getting a ticket!

And a week isn't enough ...

http://picasaweb.google.com/brianpet...35t4z3xI6A9wE#

[Fiery254]

Get an International Drivers Permit. Otherwise you will get in bigger trouble, should you get pulled over.

If you can, check the school holiday schedule for Germany. Most of Germany heads south via road to Italy and Spain. It can get very busy.

Be prepared for rain! It's Europe and the summer rain is cold.

[Garry_Kramer]

Get an International Drivers Permit. Otherwise you will get in bigger trouble, should you get pulled over.

If you can, check the school holiday schedule for Germany. Most of Germany heads south via road to Italy and Spain. It can get very busy.

Be prepared for rain! It's Europe and the summer rain is cold.

I have my International drivers licence, I have drivern many times in England, France, Spain, Germany, Luxenburg and have never had a problem with just my Ontario licence no one has ever asked me for an International permit.

Garry

[redge]

I used to live in France and I've spent time in Switzerland, including Geneva, Berne, Interlaken, Zurich.

It's hard to recommend much without knowing more about your proposed itinerary. I'd only make two suggestions. Check weather stats for whatever month you are considering, especially rainfall, and consider that if you have a week, taking your time and seeing less may be more rewarding than bombing around all over the place.

Gary is right that your Ontario license will be recognized in all three countries. No need for an international permit.

Geneva is a small town and it is expensive. You are liable to find that renting a bike there, if you can find what you want, comes at a premium.

[tingavert]

Ok I'm italian and used to drive around Alps. Here some advices:

1. International driving permit is recomended just for renting the bike.
2. In suisse you do not pay hwy, better if you use them you pay for the entire year ( usually "natives" buy a sticker for the price of 100 euros, and then they use all the hwys how many times they want, this apply to whoever want to use hwys but expect the bill since cameras will read your plate, or check with the rental company). My advice is to forget hwy just use side roads
3. Roads in suisse are in great condition, just perfect, as the entire landscape and mountain panorama. A lot a lot of hairpins so do not expect straigh (boring) roads, therefore you can't do a lot of km. You may be able to do 3 mountain pass in one day, but just driving.
4. All germans are coming south mainly using hwys so forget them - another reason is that they are in the valley and you want hairpins.
5. Hairpins, they are real hairpin and if you are not used to them just go to the fork of credit and practice. I'll tell you that the fun is going up and the problems are when you do down. If you end up wide you can go in gravel and... well down..to the next lane level http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.motoitinerari.com/traversata-alpi/passo-dello-stelvio.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.motoitinerari.com/traversata-alpi/alpi-italiane.html&usg=__T-hZ8Mw5_gGEC7uAP3z2dd8mdHU=&h=360&w=480&sz=37&hl=en &start=14&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=aIOxBR2ix9UC8M:&tbnh=9 7&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpasso%2Bdello%2Bspluga%26um%3D1%26hl% 3Den%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-ca%26tbs%3Disch:1
6. the link show a route that in my opinion is fantastic. See the hairpins on the "passo spluga" road?
7. Another typical trip in the Sellaronda around the italian Dolomiti.
8. Italian drivers.... mmm... not really the best in Europe but they know how to deal with motorcyclist. Forget blocking position and don't keep to the right too much because of the gravel!!!! Signal everything even with your hi-beam!!!
9. Go in July or August and you won't have cold even at 2500m a.s.l.
10. the bike? if you have money the new multistrada or the Gs1200.
11. Suisse is damn expensive, so I'd suggest you to rent the bike in Italy or Germany.
12. Now one week is almost nothing, considering the cost of the flight I would stay at least 2 weeks.
13. Ok I'm planning the big trip around US and CANADA (I'm looking for anyone wants to join or any group or club with the same goal)...so...You should consider a nice big trip in Europe for your 40's. Start from Corsica go north spend some time around the alps and then go north again in Norway.... why? fiords!!! lots of twisty roads uo there! and it's not a long trip (for canadian standards)
14. I forgot to warn you about speed limits in Italy, 5% over and you're ticketed. And they are strict because the most of the times is a private company managing the ticketing system, and of course they want just your money. We have the so called tutor: a camera read your plate at one location and in a second location (several km later) reads again you plate calculate the average speed and send you the picture at home. Fines could go up to 600 CAD. Then we have fixed laser-camera, red-light camera (in cities) etc.. The problem is that you are not stopped so you don't know till you se your picture. Of course all this mess is due to the fact that italians don't follow rules no they need "constrictions".Germans on the other hand follow the rules, therefore they recomend the speed on the Autobahn and they do not have limits.

Have fun!

PS I'm going back in two weeks!!!

[redge]

1. International driving permit is recomended just for renting the bike.
2. Go in July or August and you won't have cold even at 2500m a.s.l.

The purpose of an International Driver's Permit is that it provides a translation of your Canadian license into other languages. Apart from the fact that this permit is not required in France, Germany or Switzerland, Ontario licenses are already in English and French. French is the official language of France and one of the three official languages of Switzerland. If you have an Ontario license, getting an IDP for these two countries so that the French can be repeated twice is something out of Monty Python. That said, none of these countries (the Germans are quite capable of dealing with English and/or French) require one.

If the original poster decides to go to Italy, which is in the opposite direction of his itinerary, he should probably get an IDP. Italy technically requires you to carry this permit with your Ontario license. I doubt that many North American tourists in Italy bother to get one, but it can't hurt.

Anyway, I'm assuming that the bike will be rented well in advance, and if the rental company wants one, it will say so. I rather doubt it. These permits are an anachronism, and I'd be surprised if 1 per cent of the North American tourists who rent a car in Europe have one.

I would suggest that the original poster avoid August if possible. This is the month when the vast majority of French people take their annual vacation. Lots of restaurants, etc. are closed, the roads are very busy and there are fellow tourists everywhere. In France, August can also be extremely hot.

[too much]

Hi guys/gals;

I'm turning 40 next year and I plan to celebrate by flying to Europe, probably Geneva, renting a bike and spending upwards of a week there. My plans are in the early stages but it looks like I'll go from Geneva over to the northern side of France, then to Germany and back to Geneva. I also plan to spend a day in the Swiss Alps. I've never been to Europe, so anyone that can give me any tips would be great. I also need to find a good place to rent a bike.

Thanks in advance of any help.

I was planning to do the same this year, for my 40's, start in Munich and tour the Alps for 10 days, back to Munich. I'm not a big fan of organized tours, as I cannot justify paying double or triple for stuff that I may not really need. I need a bike (approx $1500), gas, hotels and food (maybe another $2000) and I couldn't find a tour under $5K. Unfortunatelly I cancelled my plans as I couldn't find companions for the trip and alone is noy that much fun
I may try some local NA tours instead.

[FiReSTaRT]

An IDP costs $10 and takes like 10min to get. I get one whenever I go to an international destination and expect to be operating a motor vehicle, which is fairly frequent. Probably went through 5-6 of them.

[redge]

An IDP costs $10 and takes like 10min to get. I get one whenever I go to an international destination and expect to be operating a motor vehicle, which is fairly frequent. Probably went through 5-6 of them.

Actually, it's $10 plus a trip to the photographer to buy and sit for 2 passport photos plus a trip to the CAA to get the permit.

In your case, five or six times over.

You're right, it isn't a major inconvenience, but it is also not required in most of Europe. Maybe these permits had a rationale back in the 50s, which was the last time they were updated, but a few things have changed in the last 60 years.

People here would know what countries are still interested in this system if the CAA, like its UK counterpart, was straight with people on its web site, and listed the countries that still expect tourists to show up with an IDP. I can think of a few reasons why the CAA isn't straight about this, but I'll refrain from expressing them.

There's a funny anecdote on the internet from a guy who said that he presented one of these permits when he was stopped in France or wherever, at which point the cop smiled and said "No, I'd like to see your real driver's license"

[FiReSTaRT]

Maybe it's because I did most of my international driving/riding in Eastern Europe and South America. Actually they can take your picture at the CAA office (which i ALWAYS forget lol) so you don't have to go to a photographer. The pics are either included in the price or it's something really nominal. I'll find out in a couple of weeks In any case, the one time I got pulled over, I had to present my card, my temp GM licence (just passed the M2-exit) and the IDP.

[Fiery254]

I used to live in France and I've spent time in Switzerland, including Geneva, Berne, Interlaken, Zurich.

It's hard to recommend much without knowing more about your proposed itinerary. I'd only make two suggestions. Check weather stats for whatever month you are considering, especially rainfall, and consider that if you have a week, taking your time and seeing less may be more rewarding than bombing around all over the place.

Gary is right that your Ontario license will be recognized in all three countries. No need for an international permit.

Geneva is a small town and it is expensive. You are liable to find that renting a bike there, if you can find what you want, comes at a premium.

Just about the worst advice I have ever seen on here. Even worse than recommending a tire shine product for a motorcycle.

Trust someone who got pulled in Spain (part of the EU) this summer for an illegal U turn. The Police were ready to tow my car as my Canadian drivers licence was worthless without the accompanying IDP. Now any rental agency will accept just your Canadian drivers licence, but if you do NOT hold an EU drivers licence then get a permit. End of the conversation.

[Brian P]

"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it" - truer words were never spoken ...

[04turbowagon]

You could do some laps of the Nurburgring. It's pretty awesome. Going to do it a second time in a cage this summer. Keep in mind that most of the deaths on this track/toll road are on bikes.

I've driven a fair bit in Europe and got a ticket in Switzerland for 5 km over the speed limit. It cost me 30 Euro. Italy sent me a ticket 1.5 years later. No idea where I got it. It said I drove somewhere where I wasn't allowed.

[ZimZima]

I was planning a similar trip last year but had to cancel. Did quite a bit of research, you can go thru my thread and pick out some useful info:
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...ad.php?t=77411

Enjoy.

[too much]

Any updates on this? I'm looking myself to do something like this, either with an organized tour or by myslef or if I can find a partner even better ... Making a decision in the next week time frame.

[Garry_Kramer]

Any updates on this? I'm looking myself to do something like this, either with an organized tour or by myslef or if I can find a partner even better ... Making a decision in the next week time frame.

I will be in Germany in August. Wife's cousin's ride. We will be renting bikes and doing some riding with them. Should be a good time. We will also be going to the largest sidecar rally in Europe hosted in Luxemburg Aug 27-29. Looks like about 1200-1700 bikes and sidecars.

Garry