Fighting Obstruct Plate 13(2) in court

[FiReSTaRT]

turbodish: Can a Metro Toronto Police officer charge me with anything that happens to occur on the 407? The 407 did not seem to concern the officer.

I'll answer that one. YES.. Actually a Sudbury cop could nail you for it as well, even if he pulls you over in Ottawa.

[Starchild]

I found the multi-quote button

You are right......................but it comes with the territory of riding a sportsbike on the street, you will get hassled if one thing is not within the rules/guidelines.

Cops are not stupid, low mounted and hard to see plate usually means a runner or a 407 dodger. He was probably fishing for something else, but only managed to tag you for the lic plate.

Don't want the hassle, then relocate your plate.

He was obviously fishing ... still doesn't make it right.

I'll answer that one. YES.. Actually a Sudbury cop could nail you for it as well, even if he pulls you over in Ottawa.

But Metro cannot pull you over on the 407 and OPP cannot pull you over on the DVP. Am I correct?

[Brian P]

I have only been riding for one year and I am already tired of the prejudice by police. They find any reason to pull you over and most will take any opportunity to throw the book at you, even if you have a perfect driving record.

So, go back to the stock lighting and stock license plate mountings (and a quiet muffler). Do all that, and there are fewer reasons to get pulled over.

Relocating the license plate is an invitation to get pulled over.

One thing you've probably yet to figure out is that there can be a world of difference between what is "safe" and what is "legal".

A stock muffler, for example, is understood to be "quiet" because it's "legal" and has all the manufacturer's compliance markings stating thus. An aftermarket muffler can be interpreted as "noisy" because it doesn't have those compliance markings ... no matter how many decibel measurements you throw around and no matter how the actual sound level compares to the stock one.

Same with lighting, same with license plates, etc.

[Brian P]

But Metro cannot pull you over on the 407 and OPP cannot pull you over on the DVP. Am I correct?

No. All police officers in Ontario, no matter what force they are assigned to, are sworn to uphold the laws of Ontario. Doesn't matter where they are. There is absolutely nothing legally stopping a Sudbury cop pulling you over in Windsor, there is absolutely nothing legally stopping a Metro cop from pulling you over on an OPP-patrolled road, etc.

Saying that it "doesn't happen very often" (because they're only assigned to patrol certain areas) is different from "it can't happen because he doesn't have jurisdiction" (which is absolutely not true, they all have jurisdiction everywhere in Ontario).

[Jayv]

He was obviously fishing ... still doesn't make it right.

The cop wouldn't have blinked an eye if it was mounted like that on a Harley.

It's profiling.....but more than likely at some point that cop probably lost a chase or a chance to pull someone on a SS with a flipped/relocated plate and is still ****** about it.

Some may say we are our own worst enemies......or as i posted earlier some may say it comes with owning a sportsbike.



Lolz i just noticed you've only been riding for a year.......you'll get use to it sometimes just getting a plate ticket for being pulled over for something completely different which is a bonus

[moto22]

Thanks for all the help. This is good practice.

Here are my auguments against the officer's issues:

• the plate must be placed where the manufacturer has specified
  As Brian P said, the HTA does not require this.
• when I go over a bump, my rear tire blocks my plate
  The officer followed me for less than 30 meters before pulling me over. I will show him photos of the street and ask him if he can identify the bump that I drove over that caused my plate to become obstructed (of course, I rode over no bumps). Plus, the plate is fixed to the rear suspension, so if I go over a bump that causes the compression, the plate will move up with the suspension.
• red light cameras cannot see my plate
  Knowing the height of red light cameras and the distance from the stop line to the intersection, I can prove mathematically that my plate is visible by red light cameras.
• there is no light for my plate
  Sorry Rob, but my plate does have a light. Read my post again.
• I have no turn signals
  The GSXR has integrated turn signals in the tail. (@ Brian P: I do not think video evidence allowed it court.)
• he looked at the four mounting screws for the factory beaver tail plate mount and said my plate should be there
  Again, the HTA does not specify this.

The photo I have posted was taken with my cell phone and, for obvious reasons, I blurred my license plate number. In the original, uncompressed photo, you can clearly make out the numbers and see all four edges of my plate, even with the shadows.

For court though, I will take photos with a dSLR under well-lit conditions. If you were on the stand, I showed you such a photo and I asked you to point to the part of my motorcycle that is obstructing my plate, what would you say?

I have fought this ticket before and loss, and as you do i thought i had a very good argument as my plate holder is a kit with a light shinning on the plate for which i had day and night photo's of,in your case as in mine the obstruction is the rear tire with the weight of the rider causing the shock to compress and obstruct the plate behind the rear tire ,and you don't have too light on it too boot will be the argument against you, not good ! hire a traffic ticket paralegal and hope for the best cause based on your argument i can almost guarantee you will be convicted..

[08CBR1000]

My opinion is that the ticket is deserved, anyone who puts there plate that far down the undertail is just asking to get pulled over. Good luck in court!

[SlowNLow]

The number of posts is immaterial. If you jump on people who have few posts then there are not likely to be many new members, are there? I suggest you keep such comments to yourself.

As to this thread I have said my piece and I'm done, but I'll be monitoring it for abuse.

I think it's material.... it's my opinion.... and quite frankly, I could care less what your opinion is... so perhaps you should take your own advice, and keep such comments to yourself. Glad your done....

Do you really think the officer will be able to counter my trigonometry? He does not have access to my bike nor did he take any photos, and I highly doubt his notes contain enough information for accurate calculations.

Just because I ride a super sport and have an after-market and legal (in my opinion) plate mount does not make me a criminal.

LOL... counter your trigonometry??? Are you serious... as I said, you are not qualified as a math expert, and NO weight will be given to your calculations...
Your opinion that your plate is legal, makes no difference whatsoever. The law says it illegal... and I'm telling you right now... you will lose this in court.... guaranteed....

Good luck though.

[SlowNLow]

I found the multi-quote button



He was obviously fishing ... still doesn't make it right.





But Metro cannot pull you over on the 407 and OPP cannot pull you over on the DVP. Am I correct?

He wasn't fishing at all.... and you're right... it doesn't make it right... it doesn't make it right that you have your plate in a position that doesn't comply with the law... as for your last comment in the above post... you should really be doing your homework.... really....

[dankyyz]

Starchild, it sounds like you have it all figured out. You dont need advice from anyone here.

I was going to say.

Dude aske for advice and then starts treating all the people who give candid advice to not fight the ticket as his "defense is weak to say the least" like they are offering unsolicited info.

LOL. Classic squid.

Luck dude. In all things.

[Rob MacLennan]

I think it's material.... it's my opinion.... and quite frankly, I could care less what your opinion is... so perhaps you should take your own advice, and keep such comments to yourself. Glad your done....

OK, so I guess I'm not done. Perhaps I should start considering people who take shots at another user's post counts to be the insult that they are?

[Mistero2009]

If I feel that the judge/JP is still going to take the officer's testimony over my factual evidence, I will attempt to dismantle the officer's arguments.

The cop is not going to have any arguments besides stating that your LP was obstructed and was not plainly visible.
Don't expect the cop to give arguments that he gave you at the side of the road with only exception of:

when I go over a bump, my rear tire blocks my plate

The rest of his reasons got nothing to do with the section you were charged.

[f1mauro]

Starchild, your photo is clearly taken from a crouched or kneeling position. Perhaps another one taken from a standing position would help decide whether it is placed legally or not. To me it would be the same as mounting a plate to the rear axle or gas tank of my cage below the bumper. Visible from low angles or vehicles behind me at a stop light... Funny pic though as that yellow caravan is clearly parked illegally right below a no stopping sign? Maybe the cop was fishing for motorcyclists?

[Starchild]

I was going to say.

Dude aske for advice and then starts treating all the people who give candid advice to not fight the ticket as his "defense is weak to say the least" like they are offering unsolicited info.

LOL. Classic squid.

Luck dude. In all things.

I never asked whether or not I should fight the ticket in court. As I stated, I am looking for holes in my defense. Some people have been extremely helpful in providing constructive criticism, but when you and others just say that I have no defense, I deserve the ticket or I should not fight this in court, it does not help. All this is besides the point as I am innocent until proven guilty and it is my right to take this to court. Fact is: I have been accused of obstruct plate, and if no one can identify the the part of my motorcycle that is obstructing my plate, that accusation is false.

You calling me a squid is just an example of your maturity, or lack thereof, and poor ability to carry out a normal, civilized discussion. Unfortunately, it is all too common that when people clearly cannot communicate and provide an argument (valid or not) and support it with facts that they resort to derogatory remarks. Do not worry; I will not stoop to your level.

The cop is not going to have any arguments besides stating that your LP was obstructed and was not plainly visible.
Don't expect the cop to give arguments that he gave you at the side of the road with only exception of:

The rest of his reasons got nothing to do with the section you were charged.

I totally agree. I'm just afraid that his other arguments may sway the judge/JP into ruling in his favour.

Starchild, your photo is clearly taken from a crouched or kneeling position. Perhaps another one taken from a standing position would help decide whether it is placed legally or not. To me it would be the same as mounting a plate to the rear axle or gas tank of my cage below the bumper. Visible from low angles or vehicles behind me at a stop light... Funny pic though as that yellow caravan is clearly parked illegally right below a no stopping sign? Maybe the cop was fishing for motorcyclists?

I know it's not the best photo to vouch for my innocence. I just haven't gotten around to taken better photos. The higher you go, the less it appears that my rear tire is obstructing my plate. I'll definitely be keeping this in mind when taking the photos I will use in court. I will still use this photo to show that in my subsequent photos, my plate is in the same place as the day I was ticketed.

LOL ... I never noticed the yellow van parked illegally. Perhaps a point worth bringing up to further embarrass the officer? J/K

[f1mauro]

LOL ... I never noticed the yellow van parked illegally. Perhaps a point worth bringing up to further embarrass the officer? J/K[/QUOTE]

Well between that and all those J-walkers right in plain sight of the officer. I guess you have one incriminating thing they all don't have......a motorcycle

[Starchild]

Well between that and all those J-walkers right in plain sight of the officer. I guess you have one incriminating thing they all don't have......a motorcycle

Touche

[Mistero2009]

The cop is not going to have any arguments besides stating that your LP was obstructed and was not plainly visible.
Don't expect the cop to give arguments that he gave you at the side of the road with only exception of:

The rest of his reasons got nothing to do with the section you were charged.

I totally agree. I'm just afraid that his other arguments may sway the judge/JP into ruling in his favour.

What OTHER arguments are you talking about????

The higher you go, the less it appears that my rear tire is obstructing my plate. I'll definitely be keeping this in mind when taking the photos I will use in court.

That's because you got that plate at an angle, which only proves that it is not plainly visible at all times.
The plate is supposed to be flat against its background material and looking straight out. (typical setup, right?)

[SlowNLow]

edit: for someone on here seeking advice... you are getting kinda mouthy with people... you have 7 posts, and you are mouthing the people trying to help you????? Not a good idea....

Good luck

OK, so I guess I'm not done. Perhaps I should start considering people who take shots at another user's post counts to be the insult that they are?

LMAO..... Rob, Rob, Rob.... you are truly priceless...... TRULY..... you do what you gotta do.... I suggest you reread the quote I so kindly supplied for you...... you know, the one where I warned a guy, who has been lurking, not contributing, and then bad mouthing other people trying to help him, that doing that will not get you the help you are looking for....
If you take that as an "insult" then this whole board will be closed down within a week.... but you are a Mod right? And that makes you... ummmm, hmmmmmm..... ummmmm.... nothing but a mod really.....

[frekeyguy]

Cheap solution........get out of your $125 ticket......

make up a bracket for your undertail, or hot glue with angle iron to your undertail portion.....take a picture during the day.

Get one of those stick on closet lights, loosely mount that (so it won't peel paint) and turn it on and take a picture at night.

Take pics to court and have it thrown out.

Total cost under $5 ish

Closet light $1.99.....or one of those complimentary key chain led lights (free)
2 Piece of shelving steel $2.99
Hot glue
5 mins worth of work.

wala!

[SlowNLow]

I never asked whether or not I should fight the ticket in court. As I stated, I am looking for holes in my defense. Some people have been extremely helpful in providing constructive criticism, but when you and others just say that I have no defense, I deserve the ticket or I should not fight this in court, it does not help. All this is besides the point as I am innocent until proven guilty and it is my right to take this to court. Fact is: I have been accused of obstruct plate, and if no one can identify the the part of my motorcycle that is obstructing my plate, that accusation is false.

LOL ... I never noticed the yellow van parked illegally. Perhaps a point worth bringing up to further embarrass the officer? J/K

Here's one big hole in your defense.... YOUR DEFENSE .... PERIOD...
You don't have a defense... and yes, you deserve the ticket.... plain and simple... don't piss on other people for calling it like it is.
The part of your motorcycle that is obstructing you plate is your entire tail section.... think about it....

As for embarrassing the officer.... only going to be one person walking out of there red faced, and I guarantee it won't be the officer....