Getting a title for a bike

[2smokewilleh]

Good morning,

So, couple of months back, I picked up an old dirtbike (70s yamaha 250). I got it for super cheap, but no paperwork, and the vin on the motor has been ground off (tho there is still a vin on the frame).... Now, it'll never be street-legal, but i would like to at very least green plate it so that I can take it through some of the local trails without worry about getting busted.

Would it be possible to register the bike, or find out if it was infact stolen? What kind of trouble might I get into if I got stopped by the cops on the bike, with a ground vin and no ownership? This thing is so old, it potentially could have been without ownership for 30 years...

[Rob MacLennan]

The bike is most likely stolen, as was apparently your suspicion when you bought it. If so, then you will forfeit the bike. I recommend that you come forward yourself, rather than waiting to be caught with it, so that you might avoid a charge for possession of stolen property.

[2smokewilleh]

I should note, the bike was a total basket case when I got it, I paid $100 for it, not running, mostly in pieces and boxes. I didn't notice the ground off vin before I bought it (engine was in a box) and i had just assumed that it had been passed around alot by people who had thought about rebuilding it but not cared enought to do so, and that the paperwork was lost at somepoint along its almost 40 years. I don't even know if the motor is original to the frame... So no, I didn't believe that it was stolen when i bought it, and having put it back together in running/useable condition, Im not really willing to call up the police and volunteer it up.... hence why i'm looking for a legitimate process to see about registering it... Chances are that if it was stolen, it was probably 30 years ago, when the bike might have been worth somthing, and the owner has long since moved on...

[Rob MacLennan]

If it was bought as a box-of-parts bike then it's likely that the 'original' owner was less than prudent about where he purchased his project parts. Unfortunately the same applies. You'll want to at least check the VIN that you have. It may have been registered as "Branded" (irreparable)."

[nobbie48]

There were some cases in the USA where stolen cars were returned to owners after decades. If the bike was stolen and had an insurance payout the insurance company would be the present owner.

If it was my project I would make sure I was only enquiring about a frame. If they wanted that at least I would be able to sell off the spares.

[RetroGrouch]

Would it be possible to register the bike, or find out if it was infact stolen?

Ask for a UVIP on the frame VIN at the MTO, that would be your first step. If it's in the system and not stolen or have any liens on it, then you're half way there. If there is no record of it, you'll need an affidavit signed by a notary that you are the legal owner.

[GVH]

Just run the VIN for UViP package. Most bikes street or dirt before the 1980s would get registered under any 12 of the 17 vin#s. Dirt bikes into the 1990s didn't get registered unless you paid extra to the dealer.

If it doesn't show up on the system then you need to do the Affidavid and get it registered in your name.

If you go riding with no ownership and piss off the local authority they can have the bike impounded. You would need to provid proof of ownership to get it back.

[2smokewilleh]

Thanks for the info, I will get the UVIP. One question comes to mind, If I go to the MTO, give them a VIN number to order the UVIP and it comes up as stolen? Should I be expecting a policeman to show up at my house?

[RetroGrouch]

Cops don't care about new stolen bikes. I don't think they'll care about a stolen 30+ year old bike. You don't need to show ID to the MTO to obtain a UVIP so they don't know who's asking anyway. If by the highly unlikely event that the bike is stolen, just pay for the UVIP in cash and walk away.

[bitzz]

1) '70s dirt bikes don't have VINs, they have serial numbers.
2) Dirt bikes are not registered like street bikes. Most 70's dirt bikes were never registered at all. Dirt bikes DO NOT have an Ontario ownership certificate.
3) Unless it was re-registered for a green plate after about '94 or 95 it will not appear in any ministry data bases.

Save your $20 for the UVIP and walk into a contract MOT office and get them to run the numbers. I am 99.999% sure it will return nothing (The MOT thinks my '74 GT750 is a trailer made in Sudbury).
After the MOT, go visit your local police station and ask nicely to run the numbers across the CPIC to see if it is listed stolen.

As long as it hasn't been reported stolen in the last 7 years you should have a REAL problem registering a '70s dirt bike with a filed off serial number.

Just ride the thing.