do not talk to police.

[eastcoast_gsx]

Again, the RIDE program was not at first intended for this type of activity... but yielded results in this case.

So, good or bad? I say both once again.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1462386/

Last Thursday, police set up a version of the familiar RIDE spot check, a sort of mobile version of a door-to-door search, along rural Highway 37, which runs north from Highway 401 at Belleville to the municipality of Tweed. They were looking to match the unusual tire treads found outside Ms. Lloyd's house.

[AdRath]

Again, the RIDE program was not at first intended for this type of activity... but yielded results in this case.

So, good or bad? I say both once again.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1462386/

I have no porblem with random stops or fake ride programs in the narrow context of a murder investigation and looking for tire treads. If they start laying chinsy HTA charges and search peoples cars above the scope of tire treads or clearly suspect vehicles that is when I get my back up at this tactic.

Looks like it worked and it was kept to the scope of the murder investigation. Bravo.

[Shaman]

Found an excellent and timely example of why you don't talk to cops these days. Read it through, see what you think.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/50610.html

This is exactly where Fantino's version of the police has taken us.

[AdRath]

Found an excellent and timely example of why you don't talk to cops these days. Read it through, see what you think.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/50610.html

This is exactly where Fantino's version of the police has taken us.

Typical Bully behaviour. They set the bar MUCH lower in the states

[Shaman]

Typical Bully behaviour. They set the bar MUCH lower in the states

You don't think it's that bad in Ontario? Think again. I know someone who is on the second year of a DUI conviction because they went after him instead of the driver. The driver admitted guilt but because the other guy lipped off at the cops, they charged him with it instead and it STUCK.

[Rob MacLennan]

You don't think it's that bad in Ontario? Think again. I know someone who is on the second year of a DUI conviction because they went after him instead of the driver. The driver admitted guilt but because the other guy lipped off at the cops, they charged him with it instead and it STUCK.

That's certainly bad, but what's the particular moral of that story?

[AdRath]

That's certainly bad, but what's the particular moral of that story?

Police can be as corrupt as the criminals they are supposed to protect us from?

Talking back isn't illegal (well other than hta172 I guess) and anything beyond enforcing the law is crossing the line and shouldn't be tolerated. Again having a charge of DUI stick when the person wasn't even driving is another clear reason why better evidence should be demanded by the courts and collected by officers. Their word should no longer be considered fact.

[Rob MacLennan]

Police can be as corrupt as the criminals they are supposed to protect us from?

Talking back isn't illegal (well other than hta172 I guess) and anything beyond enforcing the law is crossing the line and shouldn't be tolerated. Again having a charge of DUI stick when the person wasn't even driving is another clear reason why better evidence should be demanded by the courts and collected by officers. Their word should no longer be considered fact.

Not the first thing that comes to mind, for me. It makes me think that you shouldn't be an idiot to guys who carry clubs, pepper spray, and guns.

Don't argue your case at the roadside. Take your lumps, then take it to court.

[AdRath]

Not the first thing that comes to mind, for me. It makes me think that you shouldn't be an idiot to guys who carry clubs, pepper spray, and guns.

In no way should this behavior be tolerated by society. Its even more disgusting that its tolerated and covered up by those tasked to enforce the law.

[roadtoruin]

Not the first thing that comes to mind, for me. It makes me think that you shouldn't be an idiot to guys who carry clubs, pepper spray, and guns.

Don't argue your case at the roadside. Take your lumps, then take it to court.

So you're saying might is right? Don't stand up to bullies, just run and tell the teacher afterward?

I agree you shouldn't lip them off and be an idiot, but they should also be professional enough to shrug it off and lay charges where charges are due.

[Rob MacLennan]

In no way should this behavior be tolerated by society. Its even more disgusting that its tolerated and covered up by those tasked to enforce the law.

Of course it shouldn't be. Neither should bear attacks. Do we hold the guy who pokes the bear completely blameless? If this wasn't his charge, then he should have kept his mouth shut. If you ask for something, should you be surprised when you get it?

In a criminal situation, AS STATED IN THIS THREAD, keep your mouth shut.

[Rob MacLennan]

So you're saying might is right? Don't stand up to bullies, just run and tell the teacher afterward?

I agree you shouldn't lip them off and be an idiot, but they should also be professional enough to shrug it off and lay charges where charges are due.

No, I'm saying don't be a bloody idiot.

[AdRath]

Of course it shouldn't be. Neither should bear attacks. Do we hold the guy who pokes the bear completely blameless? If this wasn't his charge, then he should have kept his mouth shut. If you ask for something, should you be surprised when you get it?

In a criminal situation, AS STATED IN THIS THREAD, keep your mouth shut.

Usually after a bear attack the bear is hunted and put down if able to be identified. Maybe a similar approach in this case?

I understand as its similar with pedestrians. You can be in the right but your still dead if a car hits you. I just think shifting blame away from where it lies (The officers) condones their actions as an acceptable reaction to being talked back to.

[AdRath]

they should also be professional enough to shrug it off and lay charges where charges are due.

That right there is the key. Professionalism is lacking. Police are supposed to be 'The bigger man' in all situations and more and more they are more petty than the crooks they are after.

[Rob MacLennan]

Usually after a bear attack the bear is hunted and put down if able to be identified. Maybe a similar approach in this case?

I understand as its similar with pedestrians. You can be in the right but your still dead if a car hits you. I just think shifting blame away from where it lies (The officers) condones their actions as an acceptable reaction to being talked back to.

Option #1 - Don't poke the bear.

Option #2 - Send out the Warden to kill the bear.

Option #2 usually means that someone has had to pay for being stupid, so #1 is preferable.

[AdRath]

Option #1 - Don't poke the bear.

Option #2 - Send out the Warden to kill the bear.

Option #2 usually means that someone has had to pay for being stupid, so #1 is preferable.

The bear analogy is a little off as its a relatively 'dumb' animal and only doing what comes natural to it. If officers were just 'dumb' animals than sure don't poke the bear. However they are supposed to know better and be held to a higher standard and therefore unacceptable and inexcusable.

[Mistero2009]

I agree you shouldn't lip them off and be an idiot, but they should also be professional enough to shrug it off and lay charges where charges are due.

That's right...they have to maintain calm resolve no matter what is said to them.
It's their job to enforce the law and mouthing off to them without using profanities is not illegal.

[Mistero2009]

Of course it shouldn't be. Neither should bear attacks. Do we hold the guy who pokes the bear completely blameless? If this wasn't his charge, then he should have kept his mouth shut. If you ask for something, should you be surprised when you get it?

In a criminal situation, AS STATED IN THIS THREAD, keep your mouth shut.

Sorry Rob, can't side with you on this one.

Being a PO is a job and they HAVE TO act professionally.
So, if I go to my dentist and he doesn't like what I say he's under no obligation to treat my teeth according to the medical standards? Should he inflict pain and overcharge me for services while he is at it???

[Rob MacLennan]

Gentlemen, this thread is about not talking to police during a stop that involves a serious offence. The ultimate "talking to police" is mouthing off to one. Ignore that the police officer might be one of the small percentage that isn't playing it straight; SHOULD YOU BE MOUTHING OFF TO A POLICE OFFICER WHEN PLAYING FROM A POSITION OF WEAKNESS? No, you shouldn't. At beast you'll lose any possibility of being let off with a warning. At worst you'll be taking a ride in the back of a cruiser, ambulance, or hearse.

Use your freaking heads.

[Shaman]

All of which was not my point.

My point was (and while I don't like how Rob has put it, exactly, his as well):

DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE.

The police are NOT your friend, they CANNOT be trusted, and they do NOT represent YOU.

Why this is and how it could be changed is another conversation entirely.