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If people did the smart thing, there would be 2 stickies and three posts in the HTA forum.Originally Posted by JohnnyP636
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Moderator
Okay. I don't own Shannonville Motorsport Park nor does anyone who rides there. A race bike is a motorized vehicle. It is not necessary to have a driver's license for the road, in order to do a race or track day there. Legal or not? Explain your answer.
Turbodish explained some of this it to me in the laws and regs section. The law doesn't make sense but it seems to be so. I now understand why the charge is higher with a suspended licence and why you cannot operate under a suspension but whether or not legally you can ride on a track without a licence is still a bit vague (to me anyways)
I think you sign a piece of paper holding the facility and the municipality harmless no?
Signage talking about it everywhere. It is a closed course, and not covered under the HTA (where a private parking lot may be).
That is why kids can track ride with parents permission.
I'm talking about being on some RANDOM private property (which is where a lot of stunting takes place) uninvited, and the cops come in and give you a hard time.
If you got formal permission from the owner of a given property, and had a letter to that effect to show the cop, i'm pretty sure they would leave you alone. Nothing to stop them from waiting for you to exit with a suspended license (which they could easily know ahead of time..that the licensed owner had a suspension anyway) and burning you.
I had this discussion with the Police Supervisor at the Road Awareness rally (and somewhat abbreviated) stunt show last summer. His position was that unless there was some form of insurance and medical supervision that legally they could and would shut it down. The participants would need to sign a waiver and the property owner would have to carry liability insurance and there would have to be some form of medical (EMT) supervision.
A track like Shannonville, Mostport, etc, arranges for all of the above.
IC. the liability i can understand. Most businesss owners and landlords (prop managers) would have it too.
Permission could be documented and hold-harmless obtained.
But requiring there to be an EMS present, even if no fees were being charged for use...
Hum....i can not speak to that at all. Another reason land ownership is a myth...
D
The EMT thing makes no sense to me, insurance and permission I can understand
ya I don't get it either. When I was a kid I had ridden at several Motocross tracks for practice and they never had EMT at the track for practice just for the big races. And these weren't just a friends track in a field somewhere they were actual motocross race tracks.
See... this is where you guys need to get crafty and get electric stunt bikes. Electric vehicles are not considered motorized vehicles in Ontario... therefore you don't need a licence, therefore you can't get into trouble.... except for trespassing laws.
Actually, they are considered motorized vehicles under the criminal code. Look at the federal complaince sticker required by Transport Canada for all ebikes sold in Canada.See... this is where you guys need to get crafty and get electric stunt bikes. Electric vehicles are not considered motorized vehicles in Ontario... therefore you don't need a licence, therefore you can't get into trouble.... except for trespassing laws.
THIS VEHICLE IS A POWER
ASSISTED BICYCLE AND
MEETS ALL THE
REQUIREMENTS UNDER
SECTION 2(1) OF THE
CANADA MOTOR VEHICLE
SAFETY REGULATIONS.
CE VÉHICULE EST UNE BICYCLETTE
ASSISTÉE ET RECONTRE LA NORME 2(1)
DU RÈGLEMENT SUR LA SÉCURITÉ
DES VÉHICULES AUTOMOBILES DU CANADA.
One more difference between bicycles and ebikes - you can't be charged with impaired driving on a bicycle though you can be charged with public intoxication. On an ebike you can be charged with both.
oh haha i remember that, the 3 hour drive that i made to do a "stunt show" and rode for 20 minutes in the worst parking lot/hill that i have ever seen until the cops shut it down! Thats why most riders dont trust traveling anywhere anymore (2 cents)
Id have to gain 80lbs, and loose 20 IQ points. But the helmets are cheaper!?!?!See... this is where you guys need to get crafty and get electric stunt bikes. Electric vehicles are not considered motorized vehicles in Ontario... therefore you don't need a licence, therefore you can't get into trouble.... except for trespassing laws.
Taht is NUTS man. Allowing them to wear cycling helmets. Wont last.
OK so how about this scenario....
You have a motorcycle that is not registered, and you have no insurance on said bike. However, your licence is not suspended. So now can you get charged with anything assuming you have permission from the landlord? Let's assume you trailered your bike there.
Under the Off Road Vehicles Act, you must have liability insurance if you are operating on any property other than your own. Land owner's permission does not exempt you from that.
I was skeptical about the EMT presence as well, I think they were mostly concerned about the insurance and the possibility that the city and police could be sued if someone got hurt.
There's probably a minor financial angle here too, as in the city would want you to get a permit of some sort if you were putting on a show (not just practicing). They would chalk it up to making sure the venue was safe for spectators etc.
Moderator
Medical personnel on-site is generally a condition of insuring such an event.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
I don't think you can sign your rights away. I believe thats why Bar Hodgsons track days stopped.
Last edited by murf; 01-23-2010 at 09:13 PM.
Without reading any more posts than this, I can tell you that this is not just about a "suspended" licence for points or whatever. If your vehicle is impounded for 45 days then you were driving while under prohibition. Big difference.if you have a suspended license and your riddin in a lot (not on the street just practising on private property)... cops show up they can charge you with driving under a suspended license... even if your on private property!
it will NOT get thrown out of court! unless u pay big$$ to a fancy lawyer
and if it's your 3rd time having them there.. they'll give u a VIP tow meanin they tow your bike and it gets impounded for 45 days$$$... ends up costin over $6000 just to get it out of impound! + fines n all the bull from the "cops" (here to protect n serve)
...
the only way around this is if you directly own the property... if it's your buddys property they can still charge you!
funny how it works!
Not totally correct.See... this is where you guys need to get crafty and get electric stunt bikes. Electric vehicles are not considered motorized vehicles in Ontario... therefore you don't need a licence, therefore you can't get into trouble.... except for trespassing laws.
Still considered a motor vehicle under the Criminal Code.
The biggest misunderstanding here is what is a "suspended" driver.
There is a "suspended" driver..which is provincial, which means your DL has been suspended for points, or not paying fines. You can still drive a motor vehicle on private property, ie bike on a track.
Prohibited driver, means you are prohibited from driving. This comes from a criminal code charge. And this is where the 45 day vehicle impoundment comes in when you are caught driving while prohibited. Arrested and charged too.
This is ANY motor vehicle ANYwhere in Canada. This means you cannot operate a motor vehicle period.
PS..you can be arrested and charged with impaired driving while being drunk paddling a canoe.
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