Reply With QuoteI thought that Fantino is only one moron for all world, now I see there is one more: judge in Swiss
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ST. GALLEN–A Swiss court has slapped a wealthy speeder with a chalet-sized fine – a full $290,000.
Judges at the cantonal court in St. Gallen, in eastern Switzerland, based the record-breaking fine on the speeder's estimated wealth of over $20 million.
A statement on the court's Web site says the driver – a repeat offender – drove up to 35 miles an hour (57 km/h) faster than the 50mph (80 km/h) limit.
Court clerk Heidi Baumann-Becker said Thursday the unidentified driver can appeal the decision, handed down in November, to the Swiss supreme court.
The Blick daily newspaper in Zurich reported the fine was more than twice the previous Swiss record of about $107,000
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/ar...h-290-000-fine
I thought that Fantino is only one moron for all world, now I see there is one more: judge in Swiss
Moderator
The fine is calculated based on the income of the speeder. That way the standard of justice and punishment isn't necessarily different for the wealthy, when it comes to traffic infractions. The judge doesn't determine it.Originally Posted by ross
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Actually. thats very fitting..
Its Sickening to see people that make obscene amounts of money that think nothing of the law, or for fines.
Yetti was watching TMZ the other night, and one of the Olsen kids was coming out af a coffee Shop.. there was a parking ticket on the Bentley, and she just let it fall to the pavement as she drove off.
anyone else on the planet who makes a normal wage would freak over a parking ticket.
a $400 speeding ticket puts a serious hurt on most peoples bank account, and Insurace rates Kill us.
If You were filthy rich, would you really give a crap how much insurance you paid ?
of course, what are you to do with the people who make less than average wages ? cut their fines in half ? dont know... But stick it to the wealthy..!!!!!!
I know people that pay up to and over 10000 bucks a year just to drive there cars because they speed and get into a **** load of accidents. They don't care cause mommy and daddy pay for everything.
rich people contribute to society usually way more then piss poor ones
and often others wants to take a bite out of some one else wealth
then rich will go to other countries, where they can enjoy (really enjoy) the money, they will take their business with them, and country will stay with piss poor low-lifes
next step government will encourage the immigration that some one can feed the trailer trash
Last edited by Rob MacLennan; 01-07-2010 at 06:21 PM.
Let anyone who is here for the sake of their wealth leave. Just because someone is wealthy doesn't give them the right to skirt the laws. I'm no fan of excessive punishment but penalties according to income make sense. The idea is to PENALIZE someone, not take their money away. The act of removing someone's money that they would otherwise need/use on stuff they want is the penalty. Someone who makes $2 million a year has a virtual free pass on our roads, what's $10 000 when you make that in a day.
Would you treat the laws of the road differently if fines were $5 and your insurance is $50/year?
I doubt very much that people will pack up their successful business in order to abuse the legal system as they see fit in other countries. If that's their mindset, they can GTFO regardless how much capital they have.
www.durhaminline.com Inline Hockey in Durham Region
OFAH member
My civil libertarianism grows daily when confronted with the obvious injustices I witness.
The really rich often don't pay insurance to begin with. If you have enough money you can set some of it it aside as "your insurance liability".... I don't know who much you need, but it is in the 6 digits. ie you can insure yourself.
it is actually not only "our road", it is their road too, and often the biggest chunk of it, and for su**ers there is a ditch
what a bloody pantload
what makes you think that someone with a large income doesn't know the value of a single dollar?
I could argue that those who make large, value a dollar more than those who scrape the bottom of the barrel
fines according to income is discrimination
if I make 3x your income, I guess you think I'll gladly throw away 3x the fine amount for the same infraction then huh? well let's just remember that when I make 3x your income....I likely pay 7x what you pay in income tax....and I've about had it getting punished already
if you wanna fine according to income then it's a free pass for teenagers making 10k a year as a part-timer and student to break laws and pay virtually nothing
don't assume some guy making 40k each week would brush off paying a 10k fine....cause that guy knows exactly what 10k is....and he'll fight you tooth and nail if you try to steal it
Relax there Robin Hood, lets do like they do in communism take from the rich and give it to the "poor" aka the government. Next, lets determine the minimum wage for survival and have everyone, doctors, cops, teachers, ditch diggers, sanitors all make the same money. In fact, lets make it illegal to have money in your pockets altogether.
This is ridiculous news especially for a european country like Switzerland. There is no freedom and democracy anymore, the whole world's going to the toilet. At one point in the future, the government will insert gps units on everyone and we'll be like rats in a lab experiment.
Moderator
Last point first: This is hardly a ridiculous situation for a European nation. Europe is far more socialist than is Canada. Such a concept as charging someone a fine that is commensurate with that person's income comes quite naturally to them.
The basic concept is sound; justice should not be based on income. A $200.00 dollar fine would be an onerous burden for a McDonald's worker. It's Monday brunch for a Fortune 500 CEO. This is inherently bad for the administration of justice and meaningless as a deterrent to future law breaking.
In our system, I don't really see the fines as much of a deterrent. The real deterrents are from the potential loss of license (points) and the possibility of massive insurance costs. I don't know that I like Switzerland's system any more, but I understand the underlying logic of it.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
nah....let's scrap income tax and go to a head tax system...and then we can fine people based on income for traffic infractions
I'm having a hard time understanding your point, because you associate a good justice system directly to monetary penalties. Which further proves my point, that the government is out there to make money in the name of safety. Why must the deterrents by monetary penalties? Why is main point of justice "generate income from every infraction"?
How can speeding 50+ km/h over the limit for a few seconds cost someone $290,000? That's just doesn't sit right with me...
And how exactly is his income amount calculated? What if he buries all his money in trusts and off shore accounts effectively making his income near zero? I think the whole idea of fines based on income stinks.
Moderator
You are absolutely right that you don't get my point. A good justice system deals with everyone in an equitable and even-handed manner. Since people aren't inherently equal, their system is designed to correct for that. It is nothing to do with the money, per se. It's about the penalty being equivalent, regardless of the persons station in life.
It's Switzerland. Where else would you suggest he hide his money?
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Yea I was wondering about that, how swiss privacy laws relate to swiss citizens hmm...
If the Swiss are hiding their money outside their country, the apocalypse is coming.
www.durhaminline.com Inline Hockey in Durham Region
OFAH member
My civil libertarianism grows daily when confronted with the obvious injustices I witness.
The U.S. National Bureau of Economic Research has suggested that roughly 15% of countries in the world are tax havens, that these countries tend to be small and affluent, and that better governed and regulated countries are more likely to become tax havens, and are more likely to be successful if they become tax havens.[23]
* Andorra – No personal income tax.
* Anguilla – A British Overseas Territory and offshore banking centre
* Anjouan – offshore centre started in 2005
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Aruba
* The Bahamas levies neither personal income nor capital gains tax, nor are there inheritance taxes.
* Barbados – A 'Low-tax regime' not 'Tax haven'.[24][25][26] – The government of Barbados sent off a high level note to members of the United States Congress recently in protest of the label "Tax Haven" stating it has the potential to undermine or override the Barbados/United States double taxation agreement.[27] Since appearing on the 2009 OECD/G-20 white-list, the Barbados government began an international ad-campaign to market the country as the only Caribbean country to be included on the white-list.[28][29]
* Belize – No capital gains tax.
* Bermuda does not levy income tax on foreign earnings, and allows foreign companies to incorporate there under an "exempt" status. Companies are "exempt" from the local 60/40 ownership laws, and are not offered any special tax status. Exempt companies are also limited from doing local trade and may not hold real estate in Bermuda, nor may they be involved in banking, insurance, assurance, reinsurance, fund management or similar business, such as investment advice, without a license. The island also maintains a stable, clean reputation in the business world. At present, there are no benefits for individuals. In fact, for a non-Bermudian to own a house on the island, they would have to pay a foreign ownership tax of 25% of the purchase value, and minimum of $15,000 a year in land tax alone. They also can only purchase homes of a specific type and high value (over $4 million), so the tax is generally greater than $1 million.
* Bosnia and Herzegovina – 10% corporate income tax, 10% income tax, 10% capital gain tax
* British Virgin Islands: the 2000 KPMG report to the United Kingdom government indicated that the British Virgin Islands was the domicile for approximately 41% of the world's offshore companies, making it by some distance the largest offshore jurisdiction in the world by volume of incorporations. The British Virgin Islands has, so far, avoided the scandals which have tainted less well regulated offshore jurisdictions.
* Campione d'Italia an Italian enclave within Switzerland
* Cayman Islands
* In the Channel Islands, no tax is paid by corporations or individuals on foreign income and gains. Non-residents are not taxed on local income. Local taxation is at a fixed rate of 20% in Jersey, Guernsey, & Alderney and 0% in Sark.
* Cook Islands
* Cyprus: this jurisdiction has grown recently in popularity and anticipates further future growth. As a jurisdiction Cyprus is in a position to exploit its unusual position as an offshore jurisdiction which is within the EU. 10% corporate tax (0% for shipping companies), 20 - 30% income tax, 20% CGT
* State of Delaware a State in the USA which charges no income tax on corporations not operating within the state,
* Gibraltar is no longer considered a non-cooperative[30] tax haven since 30 June 2006. No new Exempt Company certificates are being issued from that date.[31] All previous Exempt Company certificates will be ineffective from 2010.[32]
* Hong Kong's tax rates are low (17%) enough that it can be considered a tax haven. Hong Kong does not levy tax on capital gain as well.[33]
* The Isle of Man does not charge corporation tax, capital gains tax, inheritance tax or wealth tax. Personal income tax is levied at 10–18% on the worldwide income of Isle of Man residents, up to a maximum tax liability of £100,000. Banking income tax is levied on the profits of Isle of Man based banks at 10% and income from the rent of Isle of Man property is levied at the same rate.
* Labuan, a Malaysian island off Borneo
* Liechtenstein
* Kuwait- No Tax.
* Macau
* Mauritius – based front companies of foreign investors are used to avoid paying taxes in India utilising loopholes in the bilateral agreement on double taxation between the two countries, with the tacit support of the Indian government, who are keen to improve figures relating to inward investment. The use of Mauritius as a gateway to funnel foreign investments into India has always been controversial. Mauritius's financial regime has a number of the key characteristics of a tax haven, which has helped to facilitate this.
* Macedonia – corporate taxes 10%, income taxes 10%, tax on reinvestment profit 0%
* Monaco does not levy a personal income tax.
* Nauru – No taxes. Only tax in country is an airport departure tax.
* Netherlands Antilles – In October 2008 the State Secretary of Finance announced that the Netherlands Antilles along with the Isle of Man would begin to seek ways to combat the 'Tax Haven ' label that has been placed on their territory by some governments. The leaders hinted they would welcome a more level playing field in terms of the international financial services industry.[34]
* Nevis
* New Zealand does not tax foreign income derived by NZ trusts settled by foreigners of which foreign residents are the beneficiaries. Nor does it tax the foreign income of new residents for four years.[35] No capital gains tax.
* Norfolk Island – no personal income tax.
* Panama 'Offshore' entities are not prohibited from carrying on business activities in Panama, other than banks with International or Representation Licenses (see Offshore Business Sectors) but will be taxed on income arising from domestic trading, and will need to segregate such trading in their accounts.
* Russia – 13% personal income tax
* Samoa
* San Marino
* Sark
* Seychelles
* Singapore: foreign law agencies complain about lack of cooperation and responsiveness.[36]
* St Kitts and Nevis
* St Vincent and the Grenadines
* Switzerland is a tax haven for foreigners who become resident after negotiating the amount of their income subject to taxation with the canton in which they intend to live. Typically taxable income is assumed to be five times the accommodation rental paid. French-speaking Vaud is the most popular canton for this scheme, thus it is usually called "forfait fiscal". For businesses, the canton of Zug is popular, with over 6000 holding companies.
* Turks and Caicos Islands The attraction of the Exempt Company lies in a combination of its tax exempt status and minimal disclosure and administrative requirements. In order to obtain tax exempt status the subscribers must at the time of incorporation lodge at the Companies Registry a signed declaration stating that the business of the company will be mainly carried on outside the Turks and Caicos Islands. The subscribers are not required to inform the Registrar of the identity of the beneficial owners. An exempt company must nominate a representative resident in the Islands for the purpose of service of legal process. There are more than 15,000 International Business Companies registered in the Turks and Caicos Islands.
* Ukraine – 15% income tax
* United Arab Emirates for individuals and Jebel Ali Free Zone for companies.
* United States Virgin Islands offers a 90% exemption from U.S. income taxes and 100% exemption from all other taxes and customs duties to certain qualified taxpayers.
* Vanuatu's Financial Services commissioner announced in May 2008 that his country would reform its laws so as to cease being a tax haven. "We've been associated with this stigma for a long time and we now aim to get away from being a tax haven."[37]
Some tax havens including some of the ones listed above do charge income tax as well as other taxes such as capital gains, inheritance tax, and so forth. Criteria distinguishing a taxpayer from a non-taxpayer can include citizenship and residency and source of income.
Switzerland is a tax haven for foreigners...as you can see
HAHA what an awesome thread... I lived in St Gallen (the city and the Kanton) last year, and this fine surprises me slightly haha..
My roommate was german and had some buddies from Germany visiting. his buddy drove 75 km/h in a 50 km/h zone and there happened to be a speed camera ... 15 km/h over was $1500 ticket in an "Innerort" (village area). The swiss have an awesome system over there. Everything is insured to the hilt, including your person. I could go to almost ANY bike dealership in my vicinity and rent whatever bike I wanted (R6, R1) for about the same price as GTAexotics, minus the condition GTAs are in. LOL.
Their speed limit is 120 (Austria was 130). Very few people ***** and moan in switzerland, even the foreigners. People are friendly and generally happy and enjoy life.
Who needs to go that fast when you have some of the best twisties in the world....
"Izz dangerous..... Izz dangerous not only you... but... all deh fackeen idiot who ride deh car" - Rossi, FASTER
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