Q about: telling your woman to stay safe through use of a weapon...

[oomis]

Bear spray is easy and fast to use.

I don't understand people who suggest not carrying weapons for fear their attacker may use the weapon on them. Why even bother fighting back...the attacker might hurt you some more. Why bother scream? The attacker might slug you in the mouth?

I for one would rather see my girlfriend/mother/sister attempt to use a weapon and defend herself to the limit rather than be unarmed and hope the attacker is kind enough to not hurt them too much after he robs/rapes/assaults/kills them.

Personally, the only kind of weapon that I would seriously stay away from are knives. Bladed weapons can slip if mishandled, and in particular in a sexual assault where things go to the ground in a struggle, it's not that the attacker could pick up the knife and use it on the victim, it's that the victim falls on the knife and ends up badly cut and bleeding. In particular this is a risk when the victim is panicking.

More generally, though, weapons in the hands of the inexperienced can give a very seriously flawed sense of security, and it's that false sense of security that can lead to not being aware of your surroundings. "I have a knife/gun/stick/spray - I don't have to be afraid. I can afford to be less aware". Same thing goes for a weekend self-defence course.

When you practice using your retractable baton and the attacker goes down on the first shot (or second, whatever), what happens when you flick out the baton, lay a solid shot across the face of the attacker, and they don't fall down like you practiced? All of a sudden, that false sense of bravado looks like the wrong choice compared with being more prudent.

Does this advice mean I would advocate being unarmed? Not necessarily. But that false sense of security gets people into an awful lot of trouble.

I guess, for me, it really boils down to fight or flight. If, in the heat of things, your brain pops and says "fight", then having something in your hands is probably a good idea. If, however, your brain says "flight", then whatever tool you have in your hands is going to be ineffective. Not only is it ineffective, but it will take precious seconds away from doing what your brain wants to do - which in this case is run.

The point that's been made previously is that a self defence class, even years of training, can't replicate the pop that happens in your brain when your life is really threatened. Everyone likes to think that they'll fight, but I'll tell ya, it ain't the case, and being armed doesn't change anything when that happens.

In any case, kudos to the OP for being concerned for a loved one.

[Flashmonkey]

^^^Because of the possibility that an untrained, and more than likely terrified, mother/girlfriend/sister will lose that weapon to her assailant. This will only add injury to insult if that assailant began that attack unarmed to begin with, so if she fumbles, or drops her weapon...she's basically arming her previously unarmed attacker. Like oomis said, weapons often give people a false sense of confidence and security that shouldn't be there. Having a weapon and knowing how to use it are two different things.

Edit: Oomis beat me to it...and said it better than I did haha.

[oomis]

You see, there's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_vvI26NnwE

And then there's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y

Somewhere in the middle, there's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfHk4LUYwXc

[mat2312]

Personally, the only kind of weapon that I would seriously stay away from are knives. Bladed weapons can slip if mishandled, and in particular in a sexual assault where things go to the ground in a struggle, it's not that the attacker could pick up the knife and use it on the victim, it's that the victim falls on the knife and ends up badly cut and bleeding. In particular this is a risk when the victim is panicking.

More generally, though, weapons in the hands of the inexperienced can give a very seriously flawed sense of security, and it's that false sense of security that can lead to not being aware of your surroundings. "I have a knife/gun/stick/spray - I don't have to be afraid. I can afford to be less aware". Same thing goes for a weekend self-defence course.

When you practice using your retractable baton and the attacker goes down on the first shot (or second, whatever), what happens when you flick out the baton, lay a solid shot across the face of the attacker, and they don't fall down like you practiced? All of a sudden, that false sense of bravado looks like the wrong choice compared with being more prudent.

Does this advice mean I would advocate being unarmed? Not necessarily. But that false sense of security gets people into an awful lot of trouble.

I guess, for me, it really boils down to fight or flight. If, in the heat of things, your brain pops and says "fight", then having something in your hands is probably a good idea. If, however, your brain says "flight", then whatever tool you have in your hands is going to be ineffective. Not only is it ineffective, but it will take precious seconds away from doing what your brain wants to do - which in this case is run.

The point that's been made previously is that a self defence class, even years of training, can't replicate the pop that happens in your brain when your life is really threatened. Everyone likes to think that they'll fight, but I'll tell ya, it ain't the case, and being armed doesn't change anything when that happens.

In any case, kudos to the OP for being concerned for a loved one.

You make a valid point regarding bladed weapons. Knives take a fair amount of skill to wield properly and even then there's always the element of risk associated with using them as a defensive weapon. I'm fairly handy with a blade (meddled in some weapons training when I was younger) but I wouldn't feel confident getting into a confrontation with one, there are just too many variables.

Bear spray on the other hand is an entirely different tool. Being projectile, you don't have to have intimate contact with your attacker. If performed right (and it's generally idiot-proof), it's an instantaneous 'shock' which will allow someone to break free and flee the attacker. Bear spray incapacitate senses especially sight, which can give a fleeing victim a big advantage to reaching safety. It's not 100% effective, but no weapon/tactic is.

In your post you mention it's the false sense of security that gets people in trouble, I have to agree 100% but many times I don't believe it's the weapon that facilitates that. I think people, especially people who have never been in any kind of violent/criminal/extreme situation are overall ignorant to the 'real dangerous world'. They don't pay attention to their surroundings, they believe the world is flowers and daisies and nobody will hurt them because there are very few bad people and they'll go to jail and ...nobody wants to go to jail.

Many of these people are the same ones who believe 'no one should own a gun', yet when confronted with reality they wish they had one or they blame the police for not showing up quicker. But that's an entirely different argument

I don't believe a weapon is a guarantee to safety, nor do I believe someone should carry a weapon who hasn't had some form of training. I do however think that a properly trained individual utilizing common sense when it comes to crime prevention stands a better chance than an unarmed person hoping to 'flee' their attacker the moment the attack starts.

[johnp]

Great little book which for some crazy reason is now about $45 paperback. "Strong on Defense" is the title and it's by Sanford Strong, an ex cop. I recently bought a used one from www.abebooks.com for e.g. $15 or so and I gift it sometimes.

None of it is about how to grapple, poke and punch. It's all about strategies for avoiding problems and then what to do if you can't avoid them. Great stuff. For example, one rule is "Never let yourself be moved." So if a guy puts a gun to your head and orders you into the trunk of a car - you run. If he's going to shoot you running for sure he was going to shoot you later on. Whatever is going to happen, happens right there.

Amazon.com link: http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Defense...1452768&sr=1-1

[Guy Fawkes]

+1

I have a lot of years as a martial arts instructor under my belt when I was younger, and I taught a lot of self defence classes.

They don't work. It's interesting to see, but without years and years of repetitive practice, it's not instinctive, and that's the key. Even if there IS years and years of training, I've still seen people freeze up. Ever wonder why martial arts "experts" get themselves into trouble with a barfly? Because the world changes when someone smacks you in the noggin. The best practice for fighting is to fight. And that doesn't happen in self-defence classes.

I'm not saying that doing self-defence classes isn't a good idea, I'm just very wary of people coming away from being shown something with a false sense of self-confidence, because THAT'S what gets them in trouble.

There's no quick fix for this situation. Buy her a weapon, and she may hurt herself. She may piss off a potential attacker. She may have a sense of overconfidence and forget to be aware of her surroundings.

Remember that there's a psychology to an attacker. For the most part, they look for easy prey. There really is something to be said for walking tall, feeling strong and being aware of your surroundings.

I've been saying that for years.

I've also been a strong believer that a lot of martial arts disciplines rely heavily on a specific type of form, which just doesn't translate into the real world...It even sparked an argument on here where a guy was very insistent in saying that martial arts has a lot of practical use.

Not to mention the fact that sometimes self defense techniques have to be excuted and timed perfectly...Otherwise you're dead.

Sometimes you only get one chance...And it doesn't matter who you are or how skilled you are, nobody is perfect.

[verno317]

Has she talked to her boss about safety planning? Maybe the company can set something up where they alter shift times, so that people are able to leave for the bus stop/parking lot in groups?
All the weapons mentioned are great ideas in theory, but you end up with the same problem you could have with self defense classes. If you haven't practiced with them long enough to have the skills become part of your muscle memory, chances are pretty high that the weapons won't help you.
I have used bear spray in the past with mixed results. Fortunately the bear was coming from down wind. After I used it, the spray hung around for a while. I'm not sure that it's the nose that guides a rapist. As long as she see's her attacker coming in an open area with time enough to use it before he's on her, she should be ok.
Why not go with her to her workplace on an evening off and do some safety planning of your own? Look for safety concerns like dimly lit areas, places where attackers may come from, possible escape routes etc. Run through some scenarios with her so that if the time comes she is familiar with the area. Staying calm and using her head will get her a lot further than any weapon she isn't familiar with.

[Guy Fawkes]

Has she talked to her boss about safety planning? Maybe the company can set something up where they alter shift times, so that people are able to leave for the bus stop/parking lot in groups?

I've tried suggesting something of that sort.

...And insisted that it's an employee's responsibility to ensure the safety of their employee's...But let's get real, a corporation doesn't care much about their employee's unless something happens. And the second that something does happen, they'll spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to make people comfortable again.

The other thing is that employers can't stand the ones that complain all the time.

She also happens to be one of few people who rely on public transit. Almost everyone there has a car...So much so that there's free parking for every single employee.

The late shift is also what goes to the rookies. She's not a rookie, but at some point everyone has to work that shift in order for it to be fair.

I've given up on changing her workplace, so I'm onto more "tangible" methods of safety right now.

Why not go with her to her workplace on an evening off and do some safety planning of your own? Look for safety concerns like dimly lit areas, places where attackers may come from, possible escape routes etc. Run through some scenarios with her so that if the time comes she is familiar with the area. Staying calm and using her head will get her a lot further than any weapon she isn't familiar with.

She's pretty street smart, and anything that she's been lacking, i've filled in for her. Always keeping a keen eye to who's around, what they look like, and drawing conclusions about what they look like they're capable of doing...But also keeping an eye open for possible escape routes, and being able to have the foresight to see what can happen are all things that she's aware of.

I think it's time to say goodbye to the bike...At least it's the winter now.

Sucks that my insurance rating will disappear though.

[verno317]

What about hitting up co workers for a ride to the subway if they all have cars? $10 Tim's card a week should cover it.

[knowledge]

^ that seems like a good idea, too.

If you really wanna be convincing: you talk to the co-worker like you're asking without your fiance knowing, then she acts all blushed when the co-worker brings it up, then your co-worker insists & now she have a consistent ride.

[RW24L]

On the topic of the event in Etobicoke the OP mentioned.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...ssault746.html

3 sought in Etobicoke sex assault

Toronto police are looking for three men who are alleged to have sexually assaulted a woman in Etobicoke early Saturday.
The woman left a bar near Brown's Line and Horner Avenue at around 2 a.m Saturday, police said. Three men then approached her and sexually assaulted her in the parking lot of Sir Adam Beck Junior School and the nearby Sir Adam Beck Rink, police said in a release. She called police at around 6:45 a.m.
Police wouldn't comment on the case beyond a news release they sent out Sunday.
They have released descriptions of the three men:

• A black male between the age of 20 and 30 years. He had a muscular slim build and a swirl design shaved into the hair on the back of his head. He was wearing a white winter parka with a grey and black fur-lined hood.
• A black male between ages 20 and 30. He had a slim build and was wearing a green winter parka with a fur-lined hood, a red tuque and red shoes.
• A black male between ages 20 and 30. He had a heavy build and wore a black winter parka with a fur-lined hood, a grey tuque, dark jeans and runners. He also wore a chain with a medallion in the shape of the letter P.

Police appealed to the public to contact them if they have any information about the assault.