So only 4 rounds CDN Superbike? No Shannonville?

[chinto]

Here is another interesting (bad) wrench in the works.

http://www.cdnsuperbike.com/index.ph...023&Itemid=136

not good. So what's next??? A grid with only green bikes?

[Ben G]

I think you missed my point,,, and I certainly hope SOAR does not fail,, and ,please ,,,don't challenge me about putting back into the sport,,I would appreciate that.

.......... yeah, how about putting something back into the sport......... buddy. BG

[Metastable]

not good. So what's next??? A grid with only green bikes?

Next release: we ban all models.... except CBR125s.......... errrrrrrrrm and Buells. I mean I think I understand where he is coming from. If Yamaha withdraws sponsorship money, then the series organizers are saying, we don't want you having a factory supported effort in Pro Superbike. The only way to guarantee that is to not have any R1s on the grid. Still lame! Last time I checked it was called Motorcycle racing as long as it had two wheels and met the rule book it could race. What if someone took off all the Yamaha logos and so on from the bike and stuck some Honda ones instead? Then Yamaha obviously wouldn't be behind that effort.

[A-Dogg]

Next release: we ban all models.... except CBR125s.......... errrrrrrrrm and Buells. I mean I think I understand where he is coming from. If Yamaha withdraws sponsorship money, then the series organizers are saying, we don't want you having a factory supported effort in Pro Superbike. The only way to guarantee that is to not have any R1s on the grid. Still lame! Last time I checked it was called Motorcycle racing as long as it had two wheels and met the rule book it could race. What if someone took off all the Yamaha logos and so on from the bike and stuck some Honda ones instead? Then Yamaha obviously wouldn't be behind that effort.

And there is my point. Another bonehead move from someone that thinks they still have some sort of power trying to show Yamaha who is in charge. If Kawasaki withdraws will they be banned also?
At this rate I guess it will be down to Nike or Rebok on the grid.

[kneedragger88]

'nother history lesson here. Back at the beginning Colin approached all the manufactures hat in hand. The ones that ponied up LARGE $$$ along with getting to play they also get a seat and vote at the "decisions" table to guide the series. Ducati said no thanks and they were left out.
Every year they get to pay a per diem to stay involved. Now that Yamaha and others have not maybe the rest of the players are telling PMP to ban them. BMW and Kawi are still spending the money and that comes with a vote. If both say all riders must were Santa suits then St.Nick it is.
This is what I was eluding to earlier its not all up to Colin and the way that the series was designed in the begining dictates much and may not be easily alterted.

[Ben G]

If Kawasaki withdraws will they be banned also?........... If Kawasaki withdraws, its over

Ducati said no thanks and they were left out........... Yamaha's 2010 Road Racing plans


This is what I was eluding to earlier its not all up to Colin and the way that the series was designed in the begining dictates much and may not be easily alterted ........

But it seems everybody NEEDS to blame Colin for all of this (and everything south of the boarder) ........... Russian rullet with 6 bullets............BG

[toybm]

Something to note also, is that when someone decides to start a grassroot series or any series for that matter, most of the time their intension is to keep it simple and serve their membership (riders, spectators, sponsors, etc). However as one year rolls into another they may find that attendance grows (both rider and spectator), sponsor interest increases and as such some sort of expansion is needed to meet these increased demands. Whether it`s the need for increased purses or the need to cater a little more to the needs of the sponsors for their increased participation.
I`m sure in retrospect these series that are in trouble would have chosen different paths but during their development the choices they made may have been the right ones for them at that time.

Cudos to Ken for starting something that seems to be based on a sound formula for success and that many enjoy. However, he must be aware and ever vigilant to avoid the pitfalls of trying to keep-up with the development cycle that seems to pull you in directions you find out much later were the wrong ones.

[A-Dogg]

Something to note also, is that when someone decides to start a grassroot series or any series for that matter, most of the time their intension is to keep it simple and serve their membership (riders, spectators, sponsors, etc). However as one year rolls into another they may find that attendance grows (both rider and spectator), sponsor interest increases and as such some sort of expansion is needed to meet these increased demands. Whether it`s the need for increased purses or the need to cater a little more to the needs of the sponsors for their increased participation.
I`m sure in retrospect these series that are in trouble would have chosen different paths but during their development the choices they made may have been the right ones for them at that time.

Cudos to Ken for starting something that seems to be based on a sound formula for success and that many enjoy. However, he must be aware and ever vigilant to avoid the pitfalls of trying to keep-up with the development cycle that seems to pull you in directions you find out much later were the wrong ones.

I disagree. These people in charge seem unaware and just focus on the few people that could dump money into racing in Canada to satisfy their Egos. Well those guys are old now and are gone. The new group has higher street insurance and now the laws are costly therefore you have a lot less people that may not ride. If you do not have a large grass roots base then your pyramid will collapse.

When a track day costs $175 to $225 for one day on these things they call a track then guess what happens. It becomes prohibitive and you lose people. When you want to charge someone $25+ to watch their friends race then you have a problem. Add it up the costs for a family of 4 to attend a race. Why would you spend 3 hours each way and pay $100+ alone to see some "pro racers" at a crappy facility? They offer no value added benefits. Setup a small basic dirtbike for kids or ride around on 50's.

Oh well the old thinkers made their money and passed the buck.
Smile and say thanks.

[zertrider]

OK, I think you have got to get off the $175-255 being too much for a track day. Pave 2 miles in a field somewhere (for which you would likely need 100 acres), and then pay the mortgage on said investment on $100 track days. Good luck.

Lets see, 100 acres cleared land at $6-7000 an acre=$600,000
Pavement for 2 miles of track, rough guess=$2,000,000 including grading work and the like.

Now we have to make a paddock area, or at least a gravel parking lot lets call that $100,000.
Now there is going to be maintenance required every year, so just for a number lets say $20,000.

So after a few more fit and finish type of pieces, lets call it $3million.



At 5% interest, that is a $16000 a month mortgage. And seeing as it is a track in Canada, rental will only go from April to Oct (at best), that means you have 7 months to pay $192,000. And that is with a 30year mortgage.

That means you have to have 1920 people pay for a track day in one 7 month season. Don't want to crowd the track too much so only 60 riders per day. Better sell out 32 days to break even. Hmm, $150 doesn't sound that bad to me.

[A-Dogg]

OK, I think you have got to get off the $175-255 being too much for a track day. Pave 2 miles in a field somewhere (for which you would likely need 100 acres), and then pay the mortgage on said investment on $100 track days. Good luck.

Lets see, 100 acres cleared land at $6-7000 an acre=$600,000
Pavement for 2 miles of track, rough guess=$2,000,000 including grading work and the like.

Now we have to make a paddock area, or at least a gravel parking lot lets call that $100,000.
Now there is going to be maintenance required every year, so just for a number lets say $20,000.

So after a few more fit and finish type of pieces, lets call it $3million.



At 5% interest, that is a $16000 a month mortgage. And seeing as it is a track in Canada, rental will only go from April to Oct (at best), that means you have 7 months to pay $192,000. And that is with a 30year mortgage.

That means you have to have 1920 people pay for a track day in one 7 month season. Don't want to crowd the track too much so only 60 riders per day. Better sell out 32 days to break even. Hmm, $150 doesn't sound that bad to me.

Hi Colin!
Or are you the owner of one of the tracks.
Your first post on GTAM is in this thread.
Oh, no you don't sound fishy.
Get your head out of the sand. The organized Canadian Motorcycle racing is on it's last leg. There are many things that can be done differently and still be profitable if not more for that track owner.

That's the problem with your types of thinking. Perhaps you should be suggesting how to attract the average person from the street on to the track. How do you add value to get families out there? It's no fun when 1 parent is riding around and the little ones are bored with the other parent.

Here is some simply math for you. No riders = empty tracks.
Few riders = $300 track days per person
Why don't you try to figure out why there are not more track riders considering the amount of street riders?

That track can be used for other events at night.
Setup the lights and run go carts even or allow those RC people to race their toys at night. Try being a part of the solution.

[chinto]

OK, I think you have got to get off the $175-255 being too much for a track day. Pave 2 miles in a field somewhere (for which you would likely need 100 acres), and then pay the mortgage on said investment on $100 track days. Good luck.

Lets see, 100 acres cleared land at $6-7000 an acre=$600,000
Pavement for 2 miles of track, rough guess=$2,000,000 including grading work and the like.

Now we have to make a paddock area, or at least a gravel parking lot lets call that $100,000.
Now there is going to be maintenance required every year, so just for a number lets say $20,000.

So after a few more fit and finish type of pieces, lets call it $3million.



At 5% interest, that is a $16000 a month mortgage. And seeing as it is a track in Canada, rental will only go from April to Oct (at best), that means you have 7 months to pay $192,000. And that is with a 30year mortgage.

That means you have to have 1920 people pay for a track day in one 7 month season. Don't want to crowd the track too much so only 60 riders per day. Better sell out 32 days to break even. Hmm, $150 doesn't sound that bad to me.

not to mention liability insurance.

[chinto]

Why don't you try to figure out why there are not more track riders considering the amount of street riders?

Are you kidding me??? Take a look around...track days are more popular now than they have ever been!

[A-Dogg]

Are you kidding me??? Take a look around...track days are more popular now than they have ever been!

Yes, focus on the short term. So according to you the track ridership is up. Why is the race series collapsing then?

Enjoy your:

[chinto]

How am I focusing on the short term?

With at least 4 different regional or club racing organizations to choose from in Ontario and Quebec, there are more motorcycle racing taking place in Canada than there has been in years.

The national series is struggling with some of their investors pulling out. Simple as that.

I guess in your world, you should get paid to attend track days.

[zertrider]

Your kidding right Dogg? Track ridership is down?? How long have you been doing track days?? I know in the 6 years that I have done them, attendance just keeps going up and up, as well as more trackdays being offered.

[Ben G]

How am I focusing on the short term?

With at least 4 different regional or club racing organizations to choose from in Ontario and Quebec, there are more motorcycle racing taking place in Canada than there has been in years.

The national series is struggling with some of their investors pulling out. Simple as that.

I guess in your world, you should get paid to attend track days.

............ ..yup 'er ........aint this the truth, just keep your fingers crossed we get through all this National *****..........

[Brian P]

Yes, focus on the short term. So according to you the track ridership is up. Why is the race series collapsing then?

Only the national series is struggling (US and Canada), and that's because they're extremely reliant on corporate sponsorship, and the funds for that have dried up. Regional roadracing appears to be as strong as at any time in the recent past, and there are far more track days to choose from than ever in the past.

[Riceman]

Sorry to cut in but Calabogie had 3 groups of 35 riders @ $210/day weekend
and $195/weekday, sold out everyday pretty much in advanced last year.

Do the math!!

Mind you it is one of the nicest tracks around. There's money there.
They could almost sell out everyday all summer long with no problems I'd bet. If track owners would allow...
Peep's are flogging to the tracks with the SS, I mean OPP presence in this province. If I had a couple mill kicking around I would be building a track here in cheap old northern Ont. Our min. drive is 3 1/2hrs to the closest track and it was nothing to get 8-10 buddies together to do a trackday. Too bad rates are going through the roof, much to our dismay. Thats put a dampner on this years 10 day plans but alternates like SOAR have been found.

Biking/racing is growing in Canada, just not in our premier league.

[reciprocity]

A-Dogg,

why don't you take something on and run a National series of your own?

You seem to have the answers to everything.

How long have you been involved in the sport?

How much of your money have you spent?

Do you know who the people you are arguing with are?

[toybm]

A-Dogg,

why don't you take something on and run a National series of your own?

You seem to have the answers to everything.

How long have you been involved in the sport?

How much of your money have you spent?

Do you know who the people you are arguing with are?

A-Dogg is a bit indisposed at the moment and may not be able to answer Banned !