Letters from Pembridge Insurance

[Bandit Bill]

Received in the mail today from Pembridge - two letters regarding policies for the car (Toyota Yaris) and motorcycle (Suzuki Bandit). Basically, they want 'to update' their files on the vehicles. Me, being a suspicious old bugger, suspect they are rooting for information to either up the cost of my premiums, or deny further coverage, particularly on the motorcycle. I'm not concerned about the car - it's bone-stock.

I obtained the insurance policies through Hub International, an insurance broker in 2007. Prior to that, i'd been with State farm for 21 years.

Getting insurance on the motorcycle was something of a frustrating experience at the time - since it's modified to the gills, with sidecar, aftermarket parts, and customisations tailored to my rather off-beat tastes. Initially, the meeting with the broker was rather tense, as she misunderstood the terms under which i'd been insured with State Farm, and at the time, actually point-blank accused me of 'failing to disclose' until i set her straight on the terms of insurance that i had with them (not valuated, as it was covered for third party liability only, not interested in valuating it, since you can't really accurately value, or even replace such a one of a kind vehicle in kind).

This is my concern - if i fill out the information form truthfully, i am providing full disclosure. But, if Pembridge is tightening up their standards or is one of those insurance co's that'll only insure bone-stock vehicles - then i've just shot myself in the foot, and am then in search of coverage for the motorcycle again, paying increased rates until i establish a good rep with a new company again, AND will have a technical black-mark on my insurance record for being dropped.

If i lie or don't provide the full details, well, that is not providing full disclosure.. and a huge issue if they find out. I like to stay on the good side of those who have me by the short and curlies when it comes to money. So, obviously, this is pretty much a non-starter.

My insurance on the motorcycle dropped to $500.00 annum this year. I'd like to keep it that way since i'm riding the economic knife-edge of my budget for such luxury items already, anyway.

I guess the question is, do i trust that the broker communicated fully to the insurance providor, that the motorcycle is something of an modified odd-ball, but that as far as i am concerned, it's valuation is worth nothing more than a stock 10 year old Suzuki Bandit to me? (read, next to nothing). Do i fill out the paperwork truthfully, and with confidence that my arse won't be dropped from an insurance policy as a result of truthful disclosure?

Perhaps one of our insurance experts has some thoughts on this.

*edit* asked to be moved to insurance forum, somehow posted to law forum in error.

[Victory Rider]

You may want to get a professional appraisal done on the bike. Since you have done major changes to the bike, when you applied for insurance did you disclose all the changes and was this information written down on the application of insurance. Even though you only want liability coverage, our policies today cover no fault claims. So in the event you were stopped and then someone ran into your bike and totalled it, I'm sure you would want your insurance company to pay you the value of the bike including modifications.

The only way to get an accurate value on the bike would be to have it appraised. A copy would be given to your insurance company and then they would make their underwriting decisions on your bike based on the appraisal.

Photo's would help.

Failure to fully disclose the alterations to the vehicle could VOID the insurance contract in the event of a claim.

Good luck with your insurance company.

[Bandit Bill]

You may want to get a professional appraisal done on the bike. Since you have done major changes to the bike, when you applied for insurance did you disclose all the changes and was this information written down on the application of insurance. Even though you only want liability coverage, our policies today cover no fault claims. So in the event you were stopped and then someone ran into your bike and totalled it, I'm sure you would want your insurance company to pay you the value of the bike including modifications.

The only way to get an accurate value on the bike would be to have it appraised. A copy would be given to your insurance company and then they would make their underwriting decisions on your bike based on the appraisal.

Photo's would help.

Failure to fully disclose the alterations to the vehicle could VOID the insurance contract in the event of a claim.

Good luck with your insurance company.

I talked to the insurance rep at the broker today, that sold the policies 2+ years ago. She really wasn't much help at all - she apparently didn't write down in her notes whether she disclosed to Pembridge that a) it had an attached sidecar with extensive changes and b) that i simply wanted the 3rd party liability value on the rig to reflect the valuation based on a stock bike - to save on insurance costs AND the hassle involved with writing/surcharging the hell out of the rig to the point of unaffordability. The 'luxury' part of my budget, which includes insurance, has been replaced by the phrase 'house-poor' in recent years.

I've talked to an estimator about it in the past, who approached me in a parking lot - he didn't even know where to start to base an evaluation on it.. since it's largely hand-built by myself. There is really no way to assign a valuation on a one-off that is essentially unreplaceable except through a whole lot of personal sweat-equity. There is no way insurance can compensate for that, one way or another.

I simply wish to meet the legal minimums required by the compulsory insurance act. Nothing more. As foolish or silly as it seems to others - i attach no valuation to the rig. If crap happens, i'll deal with it personally to repair if possible, or start over again with the remains, or a similar stock motorcycle replacement. Crap does happen, i do realize it .. and am fully prepared to deal with that eventuality. It's a case of making an insurance underwriter understand that rather unique and odd situation, without attaching a surcharge penalty or outright denial of coverage for this motorcycle.

I'm going to send in the forms with full disclosure, and cross my fingers. I may or may not be in search of new coverage, depending on what kind of fight/decision they come up with.

Having gone down that route before in shopping for insurance, it's not a fun experience, since most insurance agents have little experience or conception of a specialized sidecar rig setup.. much less understanding the term 'sidecar'.. there is not a whole lot of them out there - and underwriters tend to shy away from writing policies for them, rather than accomodating them. Thus, my concession/resignation that the policy reflect that it be treated as a stock motorcycle in the eventuality of a no-fault claim.

My first and foremost concern is that an insurance hassle or unaffordability doesn't get in the way of my ability to continue to ride in these personal economic lean-times. Not the value of the rig, in eventuality of an incident. I have no control of the latter - if an incident happens, i won't be riding again for a significant period of time anyway while i break out the TIG welder and start over again with repairs, or with a stock replacement motorcycle, even if i was fairly compensated for the loss of the complete rig in terms of any assessed value. By the same token, no insurance coverage means no riding - the same end result. I have to be concerned about the potential present circumstances of denied insurance coverage, and not worry so much about the potential implications of 'what-ifs' of the future.

PS, been rear-ended once already in the past.. hopefully that takes care of that for my riding experience. Insurance didn't cover it, since i dealt with it out of my own time and on my own dime (another heavily modified motorcycle).

Pembridge itself is of no help - they have no direct customer support line for those that they are writing policies to make inquiries.. you have to go through the Broker that sold the policy. These letters are the only direct avenue of communication that i've seen from the insurance company so far.

[aircav]

I won't qualify this as "good" advice but depending on the nature of the letter they sent you could just ignore it. I did just that when I was sent something similar for my house. Now, I was planning to move so I didn't care. If it's just a "we want to update" our files then there probably isn't a real need to respond. Just because some big company ask questions doesn't mean you have to respond.

[VifferFun]

Just do your best to disclose everything. It is up to Pembridge whether or not they want to write the policy.

If they decide not to write your bike, this will not negatively impact your insurance record.

Also, FYI, your Driving Record transfers from one insurer to the next . . . you don't have to take years to work your way up to the best insurance category again. Some companies offer a loyalty discount, but it is usually only about 5%, or maybe as high as 10%.

[Bandit Bill]

Dum.. Dum.. Dum...

I had received a second letter from Pembridge some time back, and i relented, filled it out truthfully, and sent it back.

Now, and what should i find in my mail box, but a delivery slip from CP for a registered letter from Pembridge - I'm up for the renewal letters any time now - but they usually end up in the mail box rather than registered letter.

Any bets that they dropped my perfect record, no-accident history arse?

Gotta pick up the letter from the post office tomorrow. I'll be ****** in a major way if i have to go through the stress of finding another insurer, on top of the other BS i'm dealing with right now.

[slowbird]

Good luck

[Bandit Bill]

Sorry, i guess this is going to sound like a rant.. i guess it is.

If it does come to being dropped, I wonder if i could sue them for a human rights discrimination case .. just on the principle of it.

At one time, up until recently, the sidecar and attendant modifications were purely a choice.

Now, at 42 freaking years of age, I'm facing hip replacement surgery in the near future. A sidecar will be a must for a period of time, if i am to continue riding. If they discriminate, based upon denying coverage on a totally legal 'assistive device' used in my 'handicap'.. it's reaching.. but it might be entertaining in a pain in the arse way - beyond the hip surgery pain.

[VifferFun]

Dum.. Dum.. Dum...

I had received a second letter from Pembridge some time back, and i relented, filled it out truthfully, and sent it back.

Now, and what should i find in my mail box, but a delivery slip from CP for a registered letter from Pembridge - I'm up for the renewal letters any time now - but they usually end up in the mail box rather than registered letter.

Any bets that they dropped my perfect record, no-accident history arse?

Gotta pick up the letter from the post office tomorrow. I'll be ****** in a major way if i have to go through the stress of finding another insurer, on top of the other BS i'm dealing with right now.

Sorry to say, but if the letter was registered, then it is most likely a cancellation notice. Pembridge would register the letter so that they can have proof that you received the letter and are aware that you are no longer insured.

Good luck!

[Bandit Bill]

Sorry to say, but if the letter was registered, then it is most likely a cancellation notice. Pembridge would register the letter so that they can have proof that you received the letter and are aware that you are no longer insured.

Good luck!

So how exactly does this affect my chances of obtaining insurance elsewhere at a reasonable insurance rate even close to what i was paying ($597.00 annum for third party, $1,000,000 liability) that reflected upon my true driving reputation and claims history the past few decades, along with long-term ticket free status, without having a totally unwarranted black-mark upon my insurance record to automatically jack my insurance beyond affordability, when i answer truthfully (full disclosure necessary, remember) that i've 'been dropped by an insurance co.' in the past?

Total Bull-crap. There will be a letter going out to the ombudsman on this, for what little good it'll do.

You behave yourself, avoid accidents, avoid tickets, and you still end up getting anally violated without so much as a kiss on the cheek as foreplay, by being screwed by the insurance industry in the long run. What a fricken Gamed system this is.

Just do your best to disclose everything. It is up to Pembridge whether or not they want to write the policy.

If they decide not to write your bike, this will not negatively impact your insurance record.

Also, FYI, your Driving Record transfers from one insurer to the next . . . you don't have to take years to work your way up to the best insurance category again. Some companies offer a loyalty discount, but it is usually only about 5%, or maybe as high as 10%.

Somehow I don't see this as being entirely true. They ask the question for a reason. I'm sure it's part of the 'ratings algorithim' for risk assessment on initial signup for a policy .. even if it's a subjective one. Answer yes, and it looks like you are already a subject of suspicion - it's a little red flag waving from that application page. One company had some reason to drop you already - why should they as your new insurance company, then take you on at anything near the same rating - and competitive rates - to what you previously enjoyed or had earned?

They certainly aren't asking the question as a casual conversation starter.

[LiNK666]

Sorry to say, but if the letter was registered, then it is most likely a cancellation notice. Pembridge would register the letter so that they can have proof that you received the letter and are aware that you are no longer insured.

Good luck!

I've had registered mail by canada post that said delivered which never was.

Sorry, i guess this is going to sound like a rant.. i guess it is.

If it does come to being dropped, I wonder if i could sue them for a human rights discrimination case .. just on the principle of it.

At one time, up until recently, the sidecar and attendant modifications were purely a choice.

Now, at 42 freaking years of age, I'm facing hip replacement surgery in the near future. A sidecar will be a must for a period of time, if i am to continue riding. If they discriminate, based upon denying coverage on a totally legal 'assistive device' used in my 'handicap'.. it's reaching.. but it might be entertaining in a pain in the arse way - beyond the hip surgery pain.

you probably could. I've heard of crazier cases being one, but you would actually have to be documented as a person with a disability. If you need a decent lawyer for this letme know, I'll point you to a good guy. He deals with insurance cases. He has a disability and yes, when dealing with human rights commission having a lawyer with a visible disability helps :P

[VifferFun]

If they choose not to renew you then this will not affect your rate. Of they choose to cancel you for non-disclosure then this will affect your rate and I would be sure to fight it. I wouldn't worry about it until you read the letter. Perhaps they just made a change to your policy that required the letter to be registered? I wish you all the best though.

[klr_guy]

If it does come to being dropped, I wonder if i could sue them for a human rights discrimination case .. just on the principle of it.

At one time, up until recently, the sidecar and attendant modifications were purely a choice.

Now, at 42 freaking years of age, I'm facing hip replacement surgery in the near future. A sidecar will be a must for a period of time, if i am to continue riding. If they discriminate, based upon denying coverage on a totally legal 'assistive device' used in my 'handicap'.. it's reaching.. but it might be entertaining in a pain in the arse way - beyond the hip surgery pain.

Hell, given some of the absurd cases that have received recent human rights tribunal attention - I'd donate to the cause.

[Bandit Bill]

Got the letter from CP.. Yup, dropped like a sack of crap.

This decision is based on:

Our underwriting rule: no more than 2 wheels touching the ground. No home-made, reconstructed, or modified/kit vehicles of any type.

BASTARDS!

That's alright then. They also lose the car, the house, the life insurance..

[RichinOville]

I had a heck of a time getting an insurance quote for the Ural. I had to send the broker a link to the website, a photo of the bike, and a copy of their brochure. Just to prove that the sidecar WASN'T an accessory but an intregal part of the bike. They only gave me that grief because I was looking for full coverage, since the bike was expensive AND brand new.

I can't imagine a company giving you grief over the sidecar when you are just looking for 3rd Party.
My insurance broker is Duffy and they hooked me up with Kingsway/Jevco.

[turbodish]

I can't imagine a company giving you grief over the sidecar when you are just looking for 3rd Party.

Well, it's not quite that simple any more with Ontario's version of no-fault insurance.

Whether you have collision coverage or not, for collisions in which another driver is wholly or partially at fault, there are a couple of additional forms of coverage that in effect provide the same net benefits as collision coverage in certain circumstances.

• Direct Compensation – Property Damage (DCPD) Coverage to pay for damage to your vehicle and its contents, if another driver is at fault for an accident that occurs in Ontario and that driver is insured by an insurance company licensed in the province.
• Uninsured Automobile Coverage to provide financial compensation for you and your family if you’re injured or killed by an unidentified driver or by an uninsured motorist. It also covers damage to your vehicle caused by an identified uninsured driver, up to $25,000.

These coverages are mandatory by law and are part of any basic auto insurance policy. Whether you have collision coverage or not, your insurer can still be on the hook for repairing or replacing your vehicle. If that vehicle just happens to be a one-off or heavily customized vehicle, I can understand an insurance company getting nervous over potential risk or valuation exposure.

[beverage]

How about checking out specialty vehicle insurance companies? My dad's hotrod is so modified there's probably not an untouched piece of the original car left on it. As with your sidecar, no true dollar value can be placed on the time and effort to rebuild it in the event of an accident. Pretty sure he had it appraised so the insurance company could put a "value" on it. He has limited coverage, and I'm pretty sure he pays less than $500/year for the coverage.

[turbodish]

How about checking out specialty vehicle insurance companies? My dad's hotrod is so modified there's probably not an untouched piece of the original car left on it. As with your sidecar, no true dollar value can be placed on the time and effort to rebuild it in the event of an accident. Pretty sure he had it appraised so the insurance company could put a "value" on it. He has limited coverage, and I'm pretty sure he pays less than $500/year for the coverage.

That coverage and price tag sounds like Lant Insurance Silver Wheels coverage. http://www.lant-ins.ca/

Unfortunately they don't cover bikes, trikes, etc. There is this one though.

http://sarnia.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehic...AdIdZ170549653

[VifferFun]

Got the letter from CP.. Yup, dropped like a sack of crap.

That's alright then. They also lose the car, the house, the life insurance..

I'm sorry to hear that. Most standard insurers want nothing to do with modified cars/bikes. Honestly, I have no clue where people even find insurance for their home-built vehicles. Try some of the brokers in the sticky, explain your situation, and see where they direct you.

Did Pembridge cancel you effective immediately, or did they choose not to renew your policy?

I agree that Pembridge is most likely losing an excellent risk. Perhaps you can get their underwriting to reconsider (especially if you are a long-time customer)?

Best of luck!

[arekzjawin]

I have a Junak with a side car. I put it on the road once in a while. I have it insured with Statefarm. They know that it is a stock side car setup because I disclosed it specifically and sent photographs of the vehicle. The rate is dirt low as well (350cc).

My experience with insurance companies in Canada is worse than the darkest nightmare. PC refused to insure my upgrade from B6 to B12 and as soon I was good to apply to Statefarm I did so. They almost treat you like human beings. No problem with side car and no problem with the big engines. Also agents are helpful and 90% accurate.

At Port Dover I saw a guy with a Harley with a side car for his wheel chair. I wonder where he got his insurance?!