What stops faster "Car VS bike" - debate

[mike.from.canmore]

After reading a thread which got totally de-railed, and led into a discussion about what stops faster, Car Vs Bike.... http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...d.php?t=102006

What do you people (not meant in a racist way), think stops faster?
I already know the answer, but lets see who can PROVE it.



posts like

"bike stops faster cause it's lighter" is generally regarded as a stupid post, cause you forgot to include a reference to a fact.

"car stops faster cause it has 4 wheels" is also a stupid post. try to add some facts & figures & supporting documentation if available. - and at a very minimum, include why you have the view that you do.


Lets see if we can come to consensus on this



EDIT - lets compare modern day sportbikes (Japanese) to modern day common cars - Civic, Mazda 3, Accord, - that kind of thing.
EDIT #2 - For those of you who chose "with ABS".. this poll is for braking in a straight line, on good pavement, with no obstacles. - I thought that by omiting that fact, that the default assumption would be straight line braking - no turning, dry pavement.

[toybm]

After reading a thread which got totally de-railed, and led into a discussion about what stops faster, Car Vs Bike.... http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...d.php?t=102006

What do you people (not meant in a racist way), think stops faster?
I already know the answer, but lets see who can PROVE it.



posts like

"bike stops faster cause it's lighter" is generally regarded as a stupid post, cause you forgot to include a reference to a fact.

"car stops faster cause it has 4 wheels" is also a stupid post. try to add some facts & figures & supporting documentation if available. - and at a very minimum, include why you have the view that you do.


Lets see if we can come to consensus on this

Good Luck !!

[caboose483]

there's too many variables to answer the question with a simple "bike" or "car".

there's a big difference between the braking performance of a modern 600cc sport bike and that of a Harley Davidson road king. also with a bike, braking performance depends heavily on rider ability.

there's also a big difference between the braking performance of a minivan and that of a performance car like a corvette.

the average bike versus the average car, i think the edge would go to the bike.

[El Zilcho]

There was some test in Top Gear a while ago. In that test the car (Lamborghini Gallardo if I recall correctly) had a shorter braking distance than the bike (Ducati 1098, again IIRC).

Taking average car from the street and an average bike from the street, I would guess that the bike would be better. But that's just my feeling. I have no data on it.

[DY]

There are too many variables to debate this. You can talk about a smart car and a harley.

I think the debate should really be about size of contact patch to stopping force.

same compound.

but anyways..i can see this going to **** very soon.

[mike.from.canmore]

Edited original post...

lets compare modern day sportbikes (Japanese) to modern day common cars - Civic, Mazda 3, Accord, - that kind of thing.



So essentially we are comparing superbikes (supersport) to the cars that exist on the road in mass volumes.

[mike.from.canmore]

Edited original post with more clarification

EDIT #2 - For those of you who chose "with ABS".. this poll is for braking in a straight line, on good pavement, with no obstacles. - I thought that by omiting that fact, that the default assumption would be straight line braking - no turning, dry pavement.

[mike.from.canmore]

there's too many variables to answer the question with a simple "bike" or "car".

there's a big difference between the braking performance of a modern 600cc sport bike and that of a Harley Davidson road king. also with a bike, braking performance depends heavily on rider ability.

there's also a big difference between the braking performance of a minivan and that of a performance car like a corvette.

the average bike versus the average car, i think the edge would go to the bike.

clarified with edit #1 in first post.

[mike.from.canmore]

There are too many variables to debate this. You can talk about a smart car and a harley.

I think the debate should really be about size of contact patch to stopping force.

same compound.

but anyways..i can see this going to **** very soon.

many variables have been eliminated..

Typical common passenger car VS typical common sportbike.

[Flashmonkey]

This is going to be a hard topic to debate rationally. As many have alluded to already, the biggest factors in braking distance are generally related to the weight of the car/bike vs how much braking power there is available. Toss in the fact that it's harder to apply max braking power to a bike more consistently and you have a cluster**** of an argument.

From a purely theoretical stand-point, however....I'll have to side with the car on this one. Obviously I have no facts to back this up, but give a car the same braking power to weight ratio as a typical supersport and I guarantee you that thing will stop on a freaking dime.

Edit:

Typical common passenger car VS typical common sportbike.

Ok in this case I'll take the sportbike. Typical passenger cars are pig heavy, have thin, crappy tires, and garbage suspension. Not to mention that most only have basic 2-pot front calipers.

[invictus43]

clarified with edit #1 in first post.

It's really a dumb question. Braking distances comparing models of bikes and models of cars are published all over the place. It's better just to go look them up if you're curious. Ultimately a car can brake with more force, period.

[Fiery254]

Based on the general criteria above i'd have to go with car. Bigger pad/rotor contact surface, bigger rubber contact on the road all add up to better stopping. But there's no way for me to prove it. Call it a gut feel.

[mike.from.canmore]

It's really a dumb question. Braking distances comparing models of bikes and models of cars are published all over the place. It's better just to go look them up if you're curious. Ultimately a car can brake with more force, period.

Of course a car can brake with more force - period. But there is a large percentage of people who think otherwise, which makes it not such a dumb question.

[mikbusa]

You can only brake so hard on a bike before the rear end comes up, then you have to let up, whereas a car with ABS - just hammer them. 4 wheels stopping with greater contact patch without the nose dive problem, I think in most cases even a fairly average car can out stop a bike. Even a car without ABS, threshold braking is quite a simple technique. ABS on a bike, I have no experience with, but magazine tests didn't indicate that there was any improvement on dry pavement.

[DY]

I don't think the size of brakes really matter either. Both passenger car and bike can easily lock up their tires in case of emergency.

There is no point in saying which one will lock up faster. good brakes are good for long extended abuse not for stopping force. there was another debate saying if a dual disk brake (front wheel) or a single disk brake (front wheel) will stop faster. given the exact same bike but with different front brakes, they will stop at the same time.

The coefficient of kinetic friction is always lower than the static friction. so a locked tire does not offer as much braking force as a tire not locked.

IE: when the ABS kicks in, the tires are on the threshhold of locking = the best braking force it can offer.

All things aside, for the same compound: the bigger the surface area, the more traction, therefore more braking force.

Unless you take into account of weight transfer, CoG and weight of the vehicle,

its gonna be a debate based on unsupported opinions. but when you bring the math into it...there won't be a debate but a definite answer.

screw the math though, its more fun without it.

[El Zilcho]

You can only brake so hard on a bike before the rear end comes up, then you have to let up, whereas a car with ABS - just hammer them.

Is that really true? My gut feeling is that you need a little extra effort to pull a stoppie than just hit the brakes.

[typhooney88]

I think in a realistic scenario, a car can stop faster than a bike, due to the fact that not many riders can achieve maximum braking potential with their bikes. i dont mean to offend any of your skills, just from read many posts, its hard to achieve the balance point between front and rear to achieve max stopping/ or just using your front.

and i think when i am driving, i find myself a lot less concerned with braking....or slamming on my breaks in certain situations. but when im on my bike, i have to worry about applying too much, where i will slide into...locking up front/back....dodging...

certainly thats a everyday situation, if you were to do a 80km hard stop at a track or anywhere..and measure....than...i really dont know....maybe u should try it...record it..and post it

[Griffin]

I have no scientific data to reference, but, from my own experience, I can stop my modern sport bike faster than my car (an Impala) that doesn't have ABS.

[typhooney88]

Is that really true? My gut feeling is that you need a little extra effort to pull a stoppie than just hit the brakes.

i beg to differ...at least on my bike....an ss, i feel like a lot of weight shifted to the front when im caught by a little suprise...and yes i know the weight shifts to the front..but more than normal. and one time i actually clenched on a little harder and the back lifted right up.

[Baggsy]

To stop a heavier vehicle's momentum you just need to press harder on the brake. As long as the pads can dissipate the heat generated, you are fine. Therefore, the size and/weight of a vehicle will make very little difference in stopping distance. If someone is covering the brake they will stop faster. If they realize that they are in deep trouble and freeze before applying the brake they will stop later. Someone with quick reflexes will also stop faster. A bike that doesn't lift it's tail off of the ground and can utilize both brakes will stop faster. Brakes that are ergonomically situated will allow faster braking. Non ABS brakes that are applied too quickly and lock up will cause a longer distance. blah blah blah. In other words it generally has more to do with the driver than the vehicle. Since we are all expert drivers, we can always outbrake each other.

My money is on the car with ABS since the person driving has less of an "oh shoot" moment.