Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Thanks for that. Very informative!
Now for some snide anger:
Can I ask someone who works at a Michigan insurance company what makes their motorcycle rates about 80% lower than in Ontario? Filip pays $260/yr for his BMW 1200 .. what's with that?
Is it the "at-fault" insurance scam, or the access to minor tickets? Or shared liability between products, rather than paying for the same thing twice .. or three times?
I'm glad that State Farm dummied their rates and made the executive decision to support (create?) the industry, rather than just profit off it.
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Can I ask someone who works at a Michigan insurance company what makes their motorcycle rates about 80% lower than in Ontario? Filip pays $260/yr for his BMW 1200 .. what's with that?
yank insurance ist a totally different ball gome.
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
i ahve a questions about two or more bikes and one rider
Why do i ahve to pay as if i only had one bike?
i can only ride one at time.
Would it not make sense to pay the liability on the most expensive bike, and the other bike should be covered. Just pay extra if you wanted fire/theft/collison on the second, third, foruth ect.. bike
And don;t give me the BS about someone else riding one bike, while you are on another. Thats a big asssssumption, and it would be simple enough to deny a claim if two bikes where out at once.
Hell have a person sign somthing saying nobody else is insured on this bike.
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zc911
i ahve a questions about two or more bikes and one rider
Why do i ahve to pay as if i only had one bike?
i can only ride one at time.
Would it not make sense to pay the liability on the most expensive bike, and the other bike should be covered. Just pay extra if you wanted fire/theft/collison on the second, third, foruth ect.. bike
And don;t give me the BS about someone else riding one bike, while you are on another. Thats a big asssssumption, and it would be simple enough to deny a claim if two bikes where out at once.
Hell have a person sign somthing saying nobody else is insured on this bike.
Agree.
For instance, if I have 2 exact same cars insured by the same insurance company, shouldn't the second car cost ~80% less (liability) than the first one? Why do I get only 10%-15% off on the second car? Why do I have to pay liability twice? Isn't it a pure fraud?
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Question. Why can't we cancel our insurance without penelty during the winter months?
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zc911
i ahve a questions about two or more bikes and one rider
Why do i ahve to pay as if i only had one bike?
i can only ride one at time.
Would it not make sense to pay the liability on the most expensive bike, and the other bike should be covered. Just pay extra if you wanted fire/theft/collison on the second, third, foruth ect.. bike
And don;t give me the BS about someone else riding one bike, while you are on another. Thats a big asssssumption, and it would be simple enough to deny a claim if two bikes where out at once.
Hell have a person sign somthing saying nobody else is insured on this bike.
This one drives me nuts
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Don't forget supply demand affect price. In province's/states where insurance is not a requirement, the pricing is actually quite reasonable/affordable because the insurance company needs to price lower in order to continue to attract business.
In areas where insurance is mandated by law (IE: Ontario), but the pricing is not regulated, the Insurance companies can gouge much more deeply. This is why they are posting record profits in 2003, 2005, and so on.
Here is the hard numbers:
$154.8 million - The Co-operators Group Ltd - PROFIT
$63.1 million - Industrial Alliance Insurance and Financial Services Inc. (IAG) - PROFIT
-$103.5 million - Kingsway Financial Services Inc. - LOSS
$35.1 Million - SGI Canada (coachman) - PROFIT
So briefly examining the situation, it is pretty clear the insurance companies are making money, with the exception of Kingsway. This is based off end of 2007 fiscal financial statements off the TSE, so there can be no dispute... they are hard numbers.
Statefarm is a US based company, and don't trade in Canada, but they posted a net profit of $5.46 billion for their USA business. This includes profits made in Canada.
Anyone who says they don't make money is lying.
Nites
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gcrouse
Question. Why can't we cancel our insurance without penelty during the winter months?
There are two reasons for this.
1. People would insure their bike for the summer, but use the slip and ride in the off season when the weather suited them. Because of the amount of uninsured riders running around in November months, they made it mandatory for year round insurance.
2. The insurance companies want to make more money that way. Insurance pay outs drop drastically in the winter, yet the reap all the profits in monthly premium;s.
Nites
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NiteshadeTA
Anyone who says they don't make money is lying.
Nites
or is reaping the rewards of low low inurance premiums for being an employee of said, non-record breaking profit, insurnace company.
How about it Vitter, care to share what you ride and what your premiums cost?
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chintoe
How about it Vitter, care to share what you ride and what your premiums cost?
Stop the presses, dog bites man.
I get a lot of free pop and philly cheese steaks at the bar.
Police officers don't get speeding tickets very often.
Why the ad-hominem?!
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dropgear
Stop the presses, dog bites man.
I get a lot of free pop and philly cheese steaks at the bar.
Police officers don't get speeding tickets very often.
Why the ad-hominem?!
Not intended to sound attacking. Just meant to point out that he is not necessarily lying, but simply cannot remain objective. After all we are discussing an industry that puts food on his table and a roof over his head. Can one really remain objective under those circumstances? For someone to try to justify inflated insurance premiums based on expected loss is all fine and dandy, but let's face it, here in Ontario we let our insurance companies get away with robbery.
As already mentioned, the insurance companies do not allow you to cancel Bike premiums during winter months without a stiff penalty. What do you suppose the expected loss to an insurance company is for an uninsured bike? It is exactly $0.00. So why not allow us to insure only during riding season?
Vitter has provided some good info and hopefully it can help at least one person out there get cheaper rates, but the bottom line is Insurance companies are turning huge profits, and they are doing so, by sticking it to their customers. Try making a claim and see what happens to your rates.
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zc911
And don;t give me the BS about someone else riding one bike, while you are on another. Thats a big asssssumption, and it would be simple enough to deny a claim if two bikes where out at once.
Hell have a person sign somthing saying nobody else is insured on this bike.
Call it BS if you want, but you licensed the bike for a year, and it needs to be insured as such. Furthermore, the bike is licensed to be used by any licensed individual.
Having people sign waivers doesn't do much with a good lawyer, so the insurance companies have taken the stance that if it's licensed for the year, it's insured for the year. Simple.
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chintoe
How about it Vitter, care to share what you ride and what your premiums cost?
I'm going out on a limb and guessing that he rides a VFR
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
farmerjoe
I'm going out on a limb and guessing that he rides a VFR
I read his name as viTTer not viFFer :laughing8:
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chintoe
I read his name as viTTer not viFFer :laughing8:
That's no problem . . . I understood what you meant :p
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Avi Singh
Call it BS if you want, but you licensed the bike for a year, and it needs to be insured as such. Furthermore, the bike is licensed to be used by any licensed individual.
Having people sign waivers doesn't do much with a good lawyer, so the insurance companies have taken the stance that if it's licensed for the year, it's insured for the year. Simple.
simple and unfair. I have no problem paying extra for fire/theft/collision for a second bike, but i have a problem paying for liability twice. i can only be liable for one accident a time lol
My brother has a horrible driving record. My parents insurance came up for renawl and becuase of him they where going to be dropped. All that had to be done was TD sent over some forums saying he was not insured if he drove any car on the policy.
Do the same for the bike. Send me the same forum saying the bike is insured for you only, and at no time shall both bikes be operated on the road at the same time (that sounds funny)
I know, US different system, but they can add second bikes this way for like $20/year (no papers to sign just common sense)
vifferfun, thanks for the input. But same general comments to your post as well :)
Re: I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zc911
simple and unfair. I have no problem paying extra for fire/theft/collision for a second bike, but i have a problem paying for liability twice. i can only be liable for one accident a time lol
My brother has a horrible driving record. My parents insurance came up for renawl and becuase of him they where going to be dropped. All that had to be done was TD sent over some forums saying he was not insured if he drove any car on the policy.
Do the same for the bike. Send me the same forum saying the bike is insured for you only, and at no time shall both bikes be operated on the road at the same time (that sounds funny)
I know, US different system, but they can add second bikes this way for like $20/year (no papers to sign just common sense)
vifferfun, thanks for the input. But same general comments to your post as well :)
I know what you mean, and I am asking a Product Specialist at my company why we don't insure two bikes in such a way. I will let you all know if I can get any more details.
As someone already pointed out, lawyers can cause a problem when it comes to exclusions. Excluding a specific driver with a poor record is common practice, but exluding ALL other drivers is not something I have ever heard of before.
To be brutally honest, I think for the majority of companies it just isn't worth the headache of filing rates for this multi-bike situation with FSCO where the financial benefit in doing so is well below the associated costs.
Cheers!