**LOUD** enough for ya??

I pulled into the local plaza this morning on my new CBR250R and started chatting with some supersport riders. They commended my choice of gear...leather jacket and pants... but they both suggested that I get a louder muffler. They said drivers would not hear me coming up their side, and too many don't check their blind spots properly.

I'm a noob, so I wanted to ask some experienced riders... do you believe that a louder exhaust is *necessary?* Or can I just stick to proper riding technique (ie. don't ride in blind spots, always make sure you're seen, have an escape route etc.)

Thanks for your help.

You can do both!

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Originally Posted by wormburner

do you believe that a louder exhaust is *necessary?*

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No.

I have a 250 and i just speed when im in a blindspot and even then i have a very very loud airhorn to tell people to get the f away from me

The only way they are going to hear you is when you pass them, so it's basically useless if you are behind someone.

If you are in front of them...well, as riders it is our responsibility to keep checking back there anyways to make sure no one is following too closely or is just about to rear end you at a light (shoulder check) ;).

Out on the highways all the noises get mushed together anyways. One bike amongst all that traffic is not going to be heard above all the other engines rumbling...just like you would see a transport truck before you heard it, aside from a honking horn (hopefully, lol).

You will be there and gone past them before any other car has the opportunity to enjoy the rumble!

I love the way a sweet exhaust sounds, and the rumble n' vibes it creates, but I think it's just to please our ears and riding enjoyment :D.

But in saying that, I would love to swap out the can on my red cibbie250 for something else, like a Yoshi or Two bros shorty. It would look better than the stock for sure :).

Depends on whatcha wanna spend :). I'm thinking about getting rid of the silver exhaust guard for something else like this, or just painting the guard that I have now:

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...13557557_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...13557557_n.jpg

I have thought about getting a Hindle can for aesthetic reasons. But these guys made it sound like I was cruising for trouble with the stock Ceebee exhaust.

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Originally Posted by wormburner

I pulled into the local plaza this morning on my new CBR250R and started chatting with some supersport riders.

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Well there's your problem. You got a 250.

All kidding aside, an exhaust isn't necessary. Just ride safe and get a Stebel horn.

I'm sure you'll grow out of the 250 so no point right now.

I know some guys with aftermarket exhausts on 600s and cars still don't hear them.
Cruisers on the other hand are a bit louder on the throttle, but when maintaining speed, the low hums, and high buzz from both bikes still are not loud enough for cagers with their windows up.

I can't hear their exhausting replies over my horn.

Thinking of getting a cbr250ra in the next year or two.
Are they as much fun as I have heard?

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Originally Posted by Baggsy

Thinking of getting a cbr250ra in the next year or two.
Are they as much fun as I have heard?

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I'm just learning to ride, but so far yes - it is rediculous fun.
It's just so darn nimble. And the low end torque never leaves you wishing for more power.

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Originally Posted by wormburner

do you believe that a louder exhaust is *necessary?*

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http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001..._2_xlarge.jpeg

Stebel Nautilus is a wonderful thing for commuting

Just be aware of your surroundings and other drivers. A lot of riders spout this "safety" crap when touting their loud aftermarket pipes. It's about sound and looks, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I didn't notice *any* difference when I had my apocalyptic-loud Akrapovic slip-on compared to any stock exhaust.

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Originally Posted by wormburner

I'm just learning to ride, but so far yes - it is rediculous fun.
It's just so darn nimble. And the low end torque never leaves you wishing for more power.

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I agree with all but the very last comment. It IS a very nimble bike, and imho head and shoulders above the Ninja 250 in torque, ease of use and sitting position for me, but I got a bit bored of the acceleration out of corners quickly, but then I'm 6ft and 260lbs, so your mileage may vary. The FI and abs is spot on! I had to ride around a lot seven times before I had the cojones to grab a mitful of front brake to test the abs. Lol.

Other riders perfer the Ninja, for me the FI, abs, and riding position are preferred. For example, when cornering on the ninja I have to tell myself after adjusting my speed to unlock my elbows, whereas on the Honda, I just pray the rubber will hold.

i would love to change the exhaust on my bike one day, but not because i want it louder...you may hear an exhaust and love the tone of it, it may improve the behaviour of the bike, the throttle response, it may remove some of the glitches that come from the factory because they are trying to meet emission standards for the bike and therefore these can cause issues. but i would never buy an exhaust to make it louder just because i hope it makes it safer that other folks on the road can hear me. i did it to one of my old cars, sounded awesome, performance felt better, but because it was louder, i didn't like it on long trips...to each their own, i would spend the money, or rather, i shall be, spending my money on a good stebil horn...

Your exhaust has to be more than "apocalyptic-loud" (Love that term) for cagers to hear you. There's 2 problems, first cars are getting better at filtering external noise to the point it's hard to hear emergency siren's even when they are aimed at the car, second is the tunes inside the car drown everything else out. When you can hear his sub-woofer from 3 miles away you can bet he cannot hear a mere bike with open pipes. LOL

That said, there is a sweet music that a well tuned exhaust makes that I just love.

How can anyone prove that being louder does not get you noticed? I had a gsxr600 with stock exhaust for 2 years and I can say without a doubt that people DID have a hard time noticing me on the highway, even when their windows were open. I can see their faces in their side mirrors, they never bothered to even check if I was there most of the time. Now I have a loud 2 bros, and anytime I even start to approach a car I see them look several times at me in the mirror. I noticed that change. People keep saying it does not make a difference. I very plainly see a difference, so I support anyone that wants to do it, NOT just for the nice sound it makes, or the performance enhancement, but ALSO because it does IN FACT make others notice, even if its slight.

Yesterday on Wilson Ave. a much older Asian woman did not kill me with her volvo because she heard me next to her (in her blind spot or very nearly with heavy traffic) while a ttc bus driver slammed on his brakes while she was following too closely. Her reaction was to flinch into my lane, but since she heard me, she corrected herself without me doing anything.

And the truck that merged into me and ran me off the 427 this morning obviously didn't hear me with my loud after market pipe.

A loud pipe or even wearing hi-vis clothing will not save you from the cagers. They will say they didn't know you were there.

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Originally Posted by cknowles

Your exhaust has to be more than "apocalyptic-loud" (Love that term) for cagers to hear you. There's 2 problems, first cars are getting better at filtering external noise to the point it's hard to hear emergency siren's even when they are aimed at the car, second is the tunes inside the car drown everything else out. When you can hear his sub-woofer from 3 miles away you can bet he cannot hear a mere bike with open pipes.

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Seriously, when I'm in the car with the windows rolled up, tunes blazing, I can't hear a damn thing on the outside (that includes my buddy's Harley when he revs it).

I don't believe there's scientific proof for either school of thought (e.g. how loud pipes behind another vehicle are able to project sound forward enough so that a person inside an enclosed vehicle can hear, etc.), but I may be wrong, so the widely accepted suggestion is to go with what makes YOU feel better psychologically (this can only help, not hinder).

I love this kind of discussion. There are multiple answers, and all are right. :) dr sarcasm is correct go with what makes YOU feel better while riding. If you can relieve any extra stress from the ride, you will be better prepared for whatever sudden move Mr. Public may try to pull on you.

Loud pipes don't save lives. It's a myth. Orangepeel is right, no one will hear the pipe until you pass them anyway. Before I put a dB Dawg on my bike, my loud pipe just gave me migraines and annoyed anyone riding behind me.

aftermarket exhaust is not necessary, but it is just one more tool that helps you to get more noticed. combine it with safe riding habits and u r golden.
like ironlung said, it does make a difference.

I just wanted to add to this, from another quasi-scientific point of view.

Should you have said loud pipes in an area that is conducive to sound waves being reflected back towards all vehicles (think an amphitheater here, like downtown in a city with high rises, etc.), than what is taking place is that some sound is being reflected back towards vehicles, allowing for motorists to potentially become aware of a loud noise (a.k.a. your motorcycle) somewhere around the vehicle (which admittedly, *may* save lives; however, we all assume that a user would react in a logical fashion and check blind spots, etc., which we know doesn't always happen).

In a scenario where there is no ability to reflect sound back towards a road where vehicles travel (e.g. countryside, open highway, etc.), it may be more difficult to prove that someone actually would hear a bike moving up through a blind spot.

Again, I know of no hard proof that either supports or debunks this view, but again, everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter given the nature of the "facts". A search on the 'Net yields nothing conclusive, however, I found this article here: http://motorcycle-intelligence.com/d...ve-lives/1119/ has the best advice (echoing several posters in this thread): "Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals."

I almost hit a patched biker with straight pipes a few years ago.
He was hiding behind a truck and the echo of his exhaust made it sound as if he was coming from the opposite direction.
Imagine someone pulling out and looking the wrong way, while you're in a blind spot for them.

Maybe Mythbusters should get involved. I still swear that my horn gets more attention, with the added benefit that I only get it when needed, without constantly distracting some drivers.

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Originally Posted by dr_sarcasm

I just wanted to add to this, from another quasi-scientific point of view.

Should you have said loud pipes in an area that is conducive to sound waves being reflected back towards all vehicles (think an amphitheater here, like downtown in a city with high rises, etc.), than what is taking place is that some sound is being reflected back towards vehicles, allowing for motorists to potentially become aware of a loud noise (a.k.a. your motorcycle) somewhere around the vehicle (which admittedly, *may* save lives; however, we all assume that a user would react in a logical fashion and check blind spots, etc., which we know doesn't always happen).

In a scenario where there is no ability to reflect sound back towards a road where vehicles travel (e.g. countryside, open highway, etc.), it may be more difficult to prove that someone actually would hear a bike moving up through a blind spot.

Again, I know of no hard proof that either supports or debunks this view, but again, everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter given the nature of the "facts". A search on the 'Net yields nothing conclusive, however, I found this article here: http://motorcycle-intelligence.com/d...ve-lives/1119/ has the best advice (echoing several posters in this thread): "Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals."

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yeah i agree with that, if your on the highway probably wont help as much cuz its too dam loud esp on the 407 with the rubber on cement contact. On the other hand local roads..I can always hear a bike when one is pulling up from behind of even passing on the opposite lane and it always grabs my attention since i always wanto check out what they're riding lmao. Pretty dam sure a loud exhaust will create more head turning since people might think there's a lambo pulling up which is what you would want (to be seen by others) lmao

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Originally Posted by Baggsy

Maybe Mythbusters should get involved.

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Baggsy, I did find this on their forums: http://community.discovery.com/eve/f...&r=65719920501 ;

No clue if they ever went through with it.

Exactly. Logically this makes some good sense, considering also that most of us live in areas that are fairly built up, with lots of buildings, fences, brick houses etc.. all around the roads in and around the city, which is perfect for reflecting sound. For me personally this is good enough, because even if it helps me just once, it worked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr_sarcasm

I just wanted to add to this, from another quasi-scientific point of view.

Should you have said loud pipes in an area that is conducive to sound waves being reflected back towards all vehicles (think an amphitheater here, like downtown in a city with high rises, etc.), than what is taking place is that some sound is being reflected back towards vehicles, allowing for motorists to potentially become aware of a loud noise (a.k.a. your motorcycle) somewhere around the vehicle (which admittedly, *may* save lives; however, we all assume that a user would react in a logical fashion and check blind spots, etc., which we know doesn't always happen).

In a scenario where there is no ability to reflect sound back towards a road where vehicles travel (e.g. countryside, open highway, etc.), it may be more difficult to prove that someone actually would hear a bike moving up through a blind spot.

Again, I know of no hard proof that either supports or debunks this view, but again, everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter given the nature of the "facts". A search on the 'Net yields nothing conclusive, however, I found this article here: http://motorcycle-intelligence.com/d...ve-lives/1119/ has the best advice (echoing several posters in this thread): "Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals."

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I wish they would get involved, because I really want a definitive answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baggsy

Maybe Mythbusters should get involved. I still swear that my horn gets more attention, with the added benefit that I only get it when needed, without constantly distracting some drivers.

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