Crap lawyers in a torte case...

Hey Everyone,

In Dec 2010 I was involved in a collision. We were on a rural highway near Beaverton (Glenarm) traveling 80km/h when this guy ran his stop sign and WACK we broadsided him. I had absolutely no time to brake, swerve or do anything evasive. My car Flipped right over his, and came to rest upside down in a ditch. My wife and I suffered many many broken bones, torn tendans, ligaments etc. which left us basically bed ridden for two months. Thankfully my 5 year old was totally saved by his car seat.

Anyway, I was referred to this law firm PLZ law. They told us we would not have to pay for anything up front but they take 30% of our settlement. Fine.
As we were bedridden at first, we needed help in our home with childcare, housekeeping etc. The lawyers said this would all be covered, no problem. We hired people to help and payed them wages from a line of credit until that was exhausted, then we signed papers promising to pay them when we were given the money from insurance, but we stopped accepting in home help after 3 months because we had not been re-embersed yet. We waited 6 months before we got cheques which was a really long wait considering we were broke as a result of this car crash.

Finally we got money, something like 23K. Barely enough to cover our debts. Well immediately The lawyers office wants like 4K out of these payments. I was dumbfoundedand and have yet to pay them.

Now they are sending us collection letters and stuff like that.
I do not think they have done a very good job because they did not get us money in ample time to continue the home care, if it came within 3 months we could have continued with the assistance, whithout which was a bit of a struggle.

Now I don't even want to communicate with our lawyers as the first thing that comes up in any correspondence is their money and when is it going to be paid...
I dont have it to give to them, and why would they even be bothered with it now as our case must be at mininum a six figure one.

I dont know if I can fire them as we signed a hundred documents, and Im not sure if my next chouce of representation will be any better.

Has anybody here been involved in a crash who had a lawyer(s) who did a great job throughout the entire process?

Does anybody know if I can change lawyers at this point without being penalized too much?

I apoligize for venting, but I really don't know what to do.
How do I find a good Lawyer, that will fight for us. I think we deserve better..

Any comments are appreciated.

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Originally Posted by krrakt

Finally we got money, something like 23K.

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Where did the $23k come from? Your insurance company?

I was involved in a head-on collison with an SUV (he said I hit him, I said he hit me, fault was not determined at the scene). I was with State Farm.

I had a broken right arm in full arm cast, destroyed left femur. They got me set up with full wage replacement immediately, a cheque for the value of my bike right away, and $1,400/month for someone to feed my cat, look after the house, etc.

All of this WITHOUT a lawyer! Never once did I need one, everything I asked for they took care of, gave me way more money for my bike than I was thinking, etc. They have covered physio at a private clinic, home exercise equipment, wheelchair rentals, etc.

I don't have any advise for your current problem, other than a better insurance company in the future. Make sure when you switch you get FULL wage replacement coverage (extra like $3/mo cost to you).

If your lawyer actually went to COURT against the driver/insurance of the other vehicle and the $23k was the payout, I don't think you have much of a chance to get more because you'd have signed off that the $23k was the "settlement". If the $23k is just what your actual insurance company owed you (lost wages, home care, etc.) then I would call:

Diamond & Diamond Lawyers
At Lawrence Square
700 Lawrence Avenue West, Suite 400
Toronto, ON M6A 3B4
Phone: 800-567-HURT (4878 )

If you've got a good case I don't think they'll have a problem working with no money up front for a percentage of the payout.

$23k for two people seriously hurt? What a joke, like you said, doesn't even cover the bills. Add an extra 0 on the end of that and it'd be where I would expect it to be.

-Jamie M.

I was hit head on and had my knees injured, soft tissue damage, I was off work 2 years. I recived $350.000.00 for loss of wages and pain and suffering. The case took eight years to settle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RonnieRev

I was hit head on and had my knees injured, soft tissue damage, I was off work 2 years. I recived $350.000.00 for loss of wages and pain and suffering. The case took eight years to settle.

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Wow, that's insane!!! :(

-Jamie M.

Thanks for the input,
The 23k was not a settlement, it was for the home care, childcare, housekeeping.etc.
The civil suit is a long way down the road, as the other post mentions it took him 8 years to settle for 350k, I think our injuries are slightly more numerous but 350 each would make me happy.
Hopefully I find a better lawyer that will take the case, one I have a bit of faith in would be nice...I just dont really know the best way to choose...

Wow, Soft tissue damage sucks, never really heals and surgery is usually more painful than the initial injury.
Imgoing theough the same thing with my shoulder (torn rotator cuff). there is no healing just phisio to strengthen all the stuff around the injury. I was lucky enough not to injure my legs too badly but my wife hyper extented her achilles(?) tendon with both leg bones broken above her anckle. Our list of injuries is huge,we both broke ribs her 7 me 5, my sternum broken, wrist in 5 places both radius and alna has commuted fractures, broken fingers, concussions, bruised lung, etc.
She had to go back to work after 3 months (what a trooper!!) as I still cant lift my arm above horizontal and my wrist has only 40% range of motion. Luckily it is my left, not my throttle hand.
The broken bones heal, but soft tissue like my shoulder and your knees will be wrecked for life unfortunately.

It sounds like you are looking for a lawyer willing to work 8 years for free.

Best of luck.

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Originally Posted by OpenGambit

It sounds like you are looking for a lawyer willing to work 8 years for free.

Best of luck.

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Not really, If they say they want 30% of your settlement instead of a retainer, IMO they should wait until one is made. before asking for money. I'm to blame for not reading the papers thoroughly enough before signing them,they are to get a percentage of any benefits paid by insurance but do they really need it before you setttle? It sure does not feel like they are on our side.
It would likely be incentive for them to get the largest possible amount for you. as opposed to paying them a set fee regardless of the outcome.

No comment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krrakt

Not really, If they say they want 30% of your settlement instead of a retainer, IMO they should wait until one is made. before asking for money. I'm to blame for not reading the papers thoroughly enough before signing them,they are to get a percentage of any benefits paid by insurance but do they really need it before you setttle? It sure does not feel like they are on our side.
It would likely be incentive for them to get the largest possible amount for you. as opposed to paying them a set fee regardless of the outcome.

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So your complaining because you signed a contract saying you would give them 30% of everything and now complaining because they want their 30%?

Thats like putting a down payment on a car and complaining because you have to pay the monthly payments and saying should I just keep the car without paying......

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...humbnail-3.jpg

Pay the $4k, fire them and move on to another law firm.

They didn't do a very good job, but you learned the hard way (sorry, but we've kinda all been there)

I have not seen full wage replacement for $3 a month the last couple years.......statefarm, primmum don't offer that price!

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Originally Posted by murf

I have not seen such low full wage replacement premium the last couple years.......statefarm, primmum don't offer that price!

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Were you referring to me? State farm includes, at no charge, income replacement up to $400/week. The full wage replacement premium is determined by how much over $400/week you make ;)

-Jamie M.

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Originally Posted by EngineerJoe

Pay the $4k, fire them and move on to another law firm.

They didn't do a very good job, but you learned the hard way (sorry, but we've kinda all been there)

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i guess that is the best idea, I've been researching lawyers but there is no real way to tell if they are good or just do the bare minimum for you. Ill keep looking/

Thanks for the comments,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toysareforboys

then I would call:

Diamond & Diamond Lawyers
At Lawrence Square
700 Lawrence Avenue West, Suite 400
Toronto, ON M6A 3B4
Phone: 800-567-HURT (4878 )

-Jamie M.

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yes. I will do that, pay my curent firm what I owe them and ask for my file.
Hopefully they give it to me

I found a good selection of lawyers here
http://www.lawyerratingz.com/searchR...ry&ratedonly=1
2 of them already got back to me. Basically I cut and pasted my initial post in the email I sent to them, and they want to meet with me Tomorrow.
One of them made the largest settlement in Canadian history on top of writing a book on car accident litigation. This is the kind of person anybody would want representing them.
I sure wish I had researched this better from the begining.
Now I get to choose who I like best, things are looking up.

ps. the lower rated lawyers have some pretty funny comments about them. Entertaining.

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Originally Posted by jeffjones

So your complaining because you signed a contract saying you would give them 30% of everything and now complaining because they want their 30%?

Thats like putting a down payment on a car and complaining because you have to pay the monthly payments and saying should I just keep the car without paying......

No, I agreed to pay 30% once the case is settled, not pay immediately from every benefits cheque, these are to cover expenses and not a cent more.
They can have all we agreed on when the case is settled...........

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...humbnail-3.jpg

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No, I agreed to pay 30% once the case is settled, not pay immediately from every benefits cheque, these are to cover expenses and not a cent more.
They can have all we agreed on when the case is settled...........
Even the lawyer I spoke with thaught this was ********!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeffjones

So your complaining because you signed a contract saying you would give them 30% of everything and now complaining because they want their 30%?

Thats like putting a down payment on a car and complaining because you have to pay the monthly payments and saying should I just keep the car without paying......

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Perhaps I've missed something here because I do not see this situation being anything like your car scenario.

If I understand correctly, the O/P agreed to pay 30% of what ever the civil suit yields. It's been my experience that settlement checks are written to the lawyer who in turn sends a separate check, (settlement minus fees) to their client. How does a lawyer feel entitled to any part of the insurance coverage paid directly to the injured party?

That would be like if you were injured at work and hired a lawyer to sue your employer. You receive Workman's Compensation for your injuries, lost wages etcetera to which the lawyer has no involvement in and so has no claim over. It's only the proceeds of the civil action against your employer that the lawyer was hired for that he will receive payment from. He doesn't get 30% of your Workman's Compensation too!

and people wonder why I laugh my *** off when they ask whether I do any litigation

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Stephen W.

Perhaps I've missed something here because I do not see this situation being anything like your car scenario.

If I understand correctly, the O/P agreed to pay 30% of what ever the civil suit yields. It's been my experience that settlement checks are written to the lawyer who in turn sends a separate check, (settlement minus fees) to their client. How does a lawyer feel entitled to any part of the insurance coverage paid directly to the injured party?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by krrakt

I'm to blame for not reading the papers thoroughly enough before signing them,they are to get a percentage of any benefits paid by insurance....

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He signed a contract saying 30% of ALL benefit including insurance.

Hey guys,good news.

I Contacted Diamond and Diamond who referred me to Neinstien and associates, because they have much experience with cases like mine where the client is unhappy with their current representation.
Greg Neinstien happened to be no.1 on the lawyer ratingz.com website.

He said he will cover any outstanding money's I owe them, and it is poor practice to take any part of benefits paid to people by the insurance and it is not how THEY operate..

We will see how it goes, I'll update.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeffjones

He signed a contract saying 30% of ALL benefit including insurance.

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And since the benefits are geared to simply provide necessary service, that leaves them without the financial wherewithal to get by. Definitely a huge mistake to have signed that, but not something I would have ever expected. Maybe a retainer up front and a percentage of the settlement, but I would never expect to have to give up money from benefits cheques.

I agree with those who are saying pay them off, then dump them.

Hi Alex,

I was actually going to suggest Oatley & Vigmond, Thompson & THompson or Neinstein. In my adjuster career I have found that they were actually really good to work with.

Your expenses for housekeeping, caregiving and attendant care SHOULD have been paid within 30 days of submission. If they weren't, than interest should have come in to play at a rate of 2% prior to Sept 1 2010 and after Sept 1 2010, 1%.

Have you been to an insurer's exam yet? Is there a formal stoppage in place for your benefits? IF not, then you're still entitled to further reimbursement.

There are plenty of ****** paralegals out there who don't care about your case or are only in it for the money, and for soft tissue claims, that's all they're good for. It sucks you got stuck navagating the system without a proper guide. It sounds like the paralegals did not do their due dilligance in contacting the claims adjuster to get your benefits paid.

I hope your claim gets placed back on track ASAP

Hehe, now I get your screen name..

Thanks for the kind words, Greg Neinstien sure made me feel confident, he said he will cover any outstanding bill at PLZ for me, for the time being. Very professional and I wish I had found them or similar much sooner! Oh well, live and learn.

"I was actually going to suggest Oatley & Vigmond, Thompson & THompson or Neinstein. In my adjuster career I have found that they were actually really good to work with."

I could not find Thompson and Thompson ,I think they changed to Thomson Rogers. They seem Like a really good choice and I contacted them but they did not get back to me yet. Oatly&Vigmond also have a detailed, informative website and look to be IMO a good firm for consideration. Goldfinger did get back to me but he seemed to lose interest but offered me a free consult anyway. Diamond and Diamond referred me to Neinstien whom already got back to me at that point.

I have all of the paperwork from Neinstien ready to sign, and as soon as I drop it off I will have retained them. I don't feel at this point that there is any need to meet with other possible lawyers, I really think there would be little difference which of these firms I go with. They all seem excellent but Neinstien seems eager to take our case.

Thank you for sharing that you have had good experiences with Nienstien and it is good to know they are respected by insurance company's (your's anyway).

All these mentioned firms deal strictly with personal injury, while PLZ dabbles in many branches of law and IMO have little experience with these matters, moreso in corperate and realestate law. They should have never accepted my case nor any other personal injury case as all they are interested in is how much money they get out of it with minimal effort. For example, I only once ever saw or spoke with an actual lawyer, always with a paralegal.

Lastly, We refused further homecare, attendent care, housekeeping and childcare after 3 months because we had not received any compensation at that point, even though it would have been welcome. It took six months to get anything but we still get letters from insurance stating things like "attendent care allowance 90 000, therapy 100 000 benefits remaining". Actually getting it in time for it to be useful, is another matter completely, the PLZ should have done a better job to ensure our recovery assistance was more seemless.

Thanks all,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krrakt

Hey guys,good news.

I Contacted Diamond and Diamond who referred me to Neinstien and associates, because they have much experience with cases like mine where the client is unhappy with their current representation.
Greg Neinstien happened to be no.1 on the lawyer ratingz.com website.

He said he will cover any outstanding money's I owe them, and it is poor practice to take any part of benefits paid to people by the insurance and it is not how THEY operate..

We will see how it goes, I'll update.

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That's friggen GREAT news!!! I love that they are going to cover the balance at the previous lawyer!!!

Sounds like they'll really kick some *** for you!! :D

-Jamie M.

I thought it was a very cool move,

So I guess there are lawyers who will work for 8 years for free. Although I'm sure only ones that are confident enough in their skills, enough to know it will more than pay off in the end....
^
not directed towards you btw..

What's a "sprocket":confused: anyway..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krrakt

I thought it was a very cool move,

So I guess there are lawyers who will work for 8 years for free. Although I'm sure only ones that are confident enough in their skills, enough to know it will more than pay off in the end....
^
not directed towards you btw..

What's a "sprocket":confused: anyway..

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Your first lawyers did a poor job managing your expectations, but what i am starting to see is a lot of unrealistic expectations.

You went to a new lawyer, offered him a new client and in a day you think he is mr. wonderful?

I wish you well, but you might want to hold off on your snarky comments about someone working for 8 years without pay, because if you think you found that guy you are in for a ****** surprise.

firstly, all the best litigators in the country go hourly, because contingency fees are about one thing and one thing only, quick settlements, you take a case thats a slam dunk, convince the injured guy that its gonna be a fight, ask for a high percentage, then settle in 3 weeks. Lawyers on contingency fees almost never go to trial, and as a matter of fact, over 95 % of all cases never hit trial (Ontario statistic).

The fact of the matter is, every single one of them would settle for 100, rather than to go to trial for 120. If you are expecting the latter, you better get off your contingency fee arrangement.

PS - Lexpert and Chambers Global are the only rating agencies I trust for lawyer competency. A quick seach on Lexpert shows 35 personal injury lawyers listed in Toronto of which 7 are from Thompson Rogers.

Thanks for the input.
Nothing is set in stone as I havn't signed anything yet so my options are still wide open.
I sure wish I knew about the Lexpert and Chambers Global ratings long ago, I dont recall the name in all my searches.
I am aware that 95% of cases do not go to trial, actually thought I read 97% somewhere. I hope we dont need to go to trial to get fair compensation, but this lawyer said to me today that he is prepared to go to trial if necessary.
I wish Thompson Rogers got back to me, I will try again.
I did not say anybody was "mr wonderful", I simply said it is great of them to cover the PLZ bill, and he seemed eager to take on our case. Also I will report later on how it goes.
These are subjective statements from my point of view, Nothing I've said is necessarily fact. Just my point of view.
I also value your comments as I know that I can get over excited about things and perhaps the facts can be unclear to me at times. So thanks for the helpful enlightnment and the rating agency information..

Good luck on your case. I hope it all works out for you. Neinstein is a good firm. I've worked with them on a few serious cases. Thompson & Rogers is a good firm. They protect their client's interests without being a-holes about it. I've referred a couple of claimants to them when I noticed they were struggling with their claim. It's technically a conflict of interest, but, screw it.

Hi,

Thanks, it is re-assuring that Neinstien is held in high regard, I decided to go ahead and retain him.

Also aparently he will be on the Lexpert list this year although he does not think it is much of a big deal, "Just a popularity contest between lawyers" he said.

Hopefully my experiences here and the comments from everyone will help others who are injured find good quality representation right off the bat.

If you cross reference lawyerratingz.com with the Lexpert list to find an attorney, I doubt someone could make a poor choice of council. I sure wish I did in the begining.

Conflict? I did not see anything:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by krrakt

Hi,

Thanks, it is re-assuring that Neinstien is held in high regard, I decided to go ahead and retain him.

Also aparently he will be on the Lexpert list this year although he does not think it is much of a big deal, "Just a popularity contest between lawyers" he said.

Hopefully my experiences here and the comments from everyone will help others who are injured find good quality representation right off the bat.

If you cross reference lawyerratingz.com with the Lexpert list to find an attorney, I doubt someone could make a poor choice of council. I sure wish I did in the begining.

Conflict? I did not see anything:rolleyes:

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Did you go to the office on Bay st, or Finch ave?

1200 bay, 7th floor.

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Originally Posted by OpenGambit

Your first lawyers did a poor job managing your expectations, but what i am starting to see is a lot of unrealistic expectations.
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A number of years ago I listened to an interview with a doctor representing the medical profession. The discussion centred on a woman in Hamilton who sued her doctor because she experienced pain giving birth and he said childbirth could be painless. She lost the case and had to pay all legal costs.

The interesting thing was the concept of realistic expectations. In the interview the doctor stated that he didn't doubt that the woman suffered from some pain but it was realisticly minor. Apparently the courts saw it that way.

The doctor went on to comment that he was a cancer specialist and if he failed to cure a patient could he be sued because he failed the patient's exectations?

As we go through life:

If a restaurant serves you lasagna that doesn't taste like your mother's do you have to pay for it?

If the weatheman says fair today and the picnic is rained out can you sue?

If a bar serves you a "Cold" beer that's 40F and you keep yours at 38F....????

If a client picks a service (Legal, medical, automotive etc) without doing reseach and the service maintains the same lousy batting average whose fault is it if the service is poor?

I'm talking generalities not this specific case. We only hear one side and the devil is in the details.

The short answer is that you can only recover on negligence. if they were not negligent, you can't recover even if you think the service wasn't what you expected.

PLEASE!!!! do not use diamond and diamond. they are crooked. they will offer you the world, and will do the bare minimum.

Also, in my experiences with Neinstein, they will wait until the last minute, after collections etc are involved, before paying out anything.

try to get in with thompson rogers, or oatley vigmond.

My neighbor's car was rammed from behind by another car and slightly hurt. After 18 months he received $70,000 and that's just a "pre-payment", he told me he expects over $100,000 more on the 2nd settlement, well his lawyer told him that, btw the lawyer took 30% of those first $70,000 and plans on taking another 30% of the $100,000.

go away peggy-sue.

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Originally Posted by vociferous

PLEASE!!!! do not use diamond and diamond. they are crooked. they will offer you the world, and will do the bare minimum.

Also, in my experiences with Neinstein, they will wait until the last minute, after collections etc are involved, before paying out anything.

try to get in with thompson rogers, or oatley vigmond.

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Well. its a done deal now. Neinstien it is. Your recomendations are the best choices available but unfortunately I did not know that at first and when I contacted them they did not seem eager to take my case which has already been messed up by another firm. Nienstien on the other hand has already cleared my bill with PLZ, lthough I'm certain to be paying for it in the long run. I feal they are going to stay on top of things for us. after all it can't possibly be worse than having a real esrate specialist FUBARing our case.

Thanks for the comments

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Originally Posted by nobbie48

A number of years ago I listened to an interview with a doctor representing the medical profession. The discussion centred on a woman in Hamilton who sued her doctor because she experienced pain giving birth and he said childbirth could be painless. She lost the case and had to pay all legal costs.

The interesting thing was the concept of realistic expectations. In the interview the doctor stated that he didn't doubt that the woman suffered from some pain but it was realisticly minor. Apparently the courts saw it that way.

The doctor went on to comment that he was a cancer specialist and if he failed to cure a patient could he be sued because he failed the patient's exectations?

As we go through life:

If a restaurant serves you lasagna that doesn't taste like your mother's do you have to pay for it?

If the weatheman says fair today and the picnic is rained out can you sue?

If a bar serves you a "Cold" beer that's 40F and you keep yours at 38F....????

If a client picks a service (Legal, medical, automotive etc) without doing reseach and the service maintains the same lousy batting average whose fault is it if the service is poor?

I'm talking generalities not this specific case. We only hear one side and the devil is in the details.

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Aparently my expectations of getting insurance benefits after 3 months were not so urealistic, We are entitled to be re-embersed every 30 days according to the the adjuster.
Also I don't know the "other side" of the story as they (PLZ) not once gave us an update on our case, and only contacted me after I recieved my first benefits check , only to take a part of it, 7 months after the accident! I don't really see a valid reason besides inexperience or incompetence for this delay. I will soon know what they have actualy accomplished on my case and I will report on that.