Honda 2002 CBR 954rr - UNKNOWN ISSUE!

Hi All,

I own a 2002 CBR 954.... bought it over 3 years ago and replaced the battery and the rectifier. Now..... here's deal..... (I cannot seem to figure this out...)

About 4 months ago, I was out for a ride, and stopped downtown on King St (Mini dealership) for a smoke (I was riding for about 2 hours straight). So, we pulled over, had a smoke and let the bikes cool down for about 20 minutes. When I went to start it up again, it wouldn't crank, as if the battery was dead. So I sparked another smoke, and started thinking about where I should push start it. I decided to give it one more shot, and BANG, it started.

So, about a month ago, again I was out for a ride, and stopped at a Tims with a buddy for a coffee. When I go to start the bike, nothing! Cluster lit up, but didn't even try to crank! So, we push started it, and we were off. Stopped off at his house (which is about 15 mins away) and it started no problem! We tried starting it 10 times, no problem whatsoever.

So, we took out his voltage tester, and I opened my 954 manual, and did all the tests for the alternator/battery/rectifier. All the results read they were all fine.

Last Thursday, me and my bud were on our way to the Tims at Lakeshore and Leslie, and we stopped off for gas. My bike wouldn't start. So, we push start it again, go to the Tims, and leave there no problem. Cranked first try. We even started talking to a couple of other guys, and he thought it might have been the starter switch, so he turned my bike on about 4-5 times.... and it cranked every time!!

Now, I've been out riding about 4 more times since last Thursday, and it's started perfectly every time...... until tonight. I left my house with a perfect start, had a coffee, and it wouldn't start an hour later when I was leaving.

Now, here are a couple things I have done:

1. Put my battery on my tender and left it for about 14 hours. Put the battery in, started perfectly. Went for a 1 hour ride, stopped the bike for about 5 hours while I was golfing, started the bike fine when leaving the course. 1 hour ride on the way home, stopped the bike at a friends' house, and tried starting it just to see..... wouldn't start (not even a crank). Push started it, rode home (5 mins away), and tested again when I got home.... started perfectly.

2. Removed the fuse from my alarm, thinking that was the issue. Still happens.

Does ANYONE have ANY thoughts?!?! This is driving me insane!! lol...

Phily.....

When it fails to start can you hear the starter solenoid clicking? If you can hear a clicking sound and the starter won't crank the engine, you can narrow the problem down to a bad solenoid, starter wiring, or a bad starter motor.

If you don't hear a clicking sound when you press the starter button, then the problem is much more complicated. It could be a kickstand switch, ignition switch, wiring, etc.

Quit stopping for smokes and coffees so the thing can at least re-charge itself.

There is a relay on the Hondas thats known to go bad and cause the same speratic non starting issue your having...My friend just dealt with this 2 days ago on a 600RR...The person that told him to check the relay owned a 929 and had the same problem before...On the 600RR it was up by the headlights

post on fireblades.org to see if anyone else had that issue.

90% of the time, I will hear the clicking. BUt there have been a few times where I'll try starting it, and there is no clicking. But when I press the starter switch, the lights will dim.

When I stop for smokes, it's after riding for 2 hours. I don't stop every 10 minutes to smoke.... lol.

So I think that 2 hours of highway riding is plenty of "charging time".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phily954rr

When I stop for smokes, it's after riding for 2 hours. I don't stop every 10 minutes to smoke.... lol.
So I think that 2 hours of highway riding is plenty of "charging time".

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Just razzin you. Glad you laughed.
Could be a bad battery, could be the starter relay as mentioned. Same symptoms for both, no clicking, lights dimming when starter button is pressed. Check your battery voltage when cold, right after starting, and after a long ride. Much lower than 12.5v is a weak battery and while charging at idle it should be 13V and as high as 14-15V when revving.
If voltage is all over the place then a voltage regulator could cause similar battery probs due to over charging. (one of Honda's more popular replacement parts)

If you can, next time it doesn't start, measure the battery voltage at rest, as well as while trying to crank.

This will eliminate a few things, but won't answer the question.
If you have good voltage at the battery while trying to crank, then your issue is with the starter, starter switch, or starter solenoid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gybeman

Just razzin you. Glad you laughed.
Could be a bad battery, could be the starter relay as mentioned. Same symptoms for both, no clicking, lights dimming when starter button is pressed. Check your battery voltage when cold, right after starting, and after a long ride. Much lower than 12.5v is a weak battery and while charging at idle it should be 13V and as high as 14-15V when revving.
If voltage is all over the place then a voltage regulator could cause similar battery probs due to over charging. (one of Honda's more popular replacement parts)

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Hey, no problem dude. I figured you were joking, or I was going to find a way to set you to an "ignore list". :)

Cold=12.83, Right after starting=12.75, long ride=12.95, idle charging=12.65, idle revving over 5000=13.84. These are all approx numbers I remember from when I did some tests last week.

Since I've replaced the rectifier/regulator already, and I was having similar issue (but it just burned out on me in a weekend, literally starting smoking from the rear), I thought it could be the issue. But since I did the tests on it that the Service Manual shows you, and the results came back fine, I figured it wasn't. This is so intermittent that maybe I was testing it when it was in its working stage. lol.

A few people mention the kick stand or starter switch. Maybe I should try looking at those.

Anything in particular I should be looking at with the starter switch or kick stand sensor?

Check the ground cable from the battery to frame. If there is a bit of corrosion at either end, I have had your symptoms on other bikes. Just wiggle each end when it's not cooperating and see if it makes a difference. Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phily954rr

Anything in particular I should be looking at with the starter switch or kick stand sensor?

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Those are healthy voltages btw. Doubt its a battery problem, but it could only show up under heavy current draw, so maybe check the voltage with the starter button pressed and see what it drops down to.
You can rule out the side stand sensor, clutch safety switch, or neutral switch (don't think yours has one of those) if you get headlight dimming. If you don't hear clicking or get dimming, then jumper those things off one at a time to bypass them and try again.
Headlight dimming means there is current at the starter and its straining to turn the starter motor. Best check for voltage at the starter motor itself.
Disconnect the battery. Clean (as in sand paper or use emery cloth to clean off any green corrosion stuff that may be there) and reconnect the connection of the big wire on the starter itself. Reconnect the battery and press the starter. You should get voltage at the little wire on the starter. If you get power there, the relay is fine and its the starter or solenoid. If you don't see power there, its the relay or your starter switch.
I've seen a couple similar problems in older cars and all they needed was a cleaning of the big wire connection at the starter or the battery posts themselves.

having the same kind of issue with my 929 today......I just replaced the stator last week and have had a dead battery a few times since and had to bump start it......today was out this moring had to go down to the danforth......left the bike running while I was down there as I was afraid the battery would not start the bike......rode home, turned bike of then tried to start and nothing.........lights came on but no turn over just dim head light and guages.....then would crank for just a second then nothing......going to tear into it tomorrow!.....I plane to replace the regulator and the other will be a process of elimination!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GreyGhost

Check the ground cable from the battery to frame. If there is a bit of corrosion at either end, I have had your symptoms on other bikes. Just wiggle each end when it's not cooperating and see if it makes a difference. Good luck.

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+1

Don't just look at the condition of the negative, but both!!!!!!! This is a very common mistake when people don't recognize that the battery is it's own type of circuit that requires both cables be doing their job well.

I had this problem with my VTR earlier this year. Turned out the positive connection at the battery was the culprit. Cleaned it well and it hasn't been a problem since.

In my case there was enough conductivity in the connection to power the lights prior to start-up, but as soon as I hit the start button - DEAD! Barely a 'click' would be heard, if at all. The connection would not support enough current to pass through for the starter to engage. A "wiggle test" was all it took.

Good luck.

So I've tested again today. Cleaned all the wires (except the ground connection to the frame, which I will do in a few minutes after this post), and still nothing. The reason I haven't cleaned the ground is because I did a wiggle test while starting, and nothing.

So, I'm going to a friends house right now, and we're going to do some more testing.

For some reason, I have a feeling its the rectifier.

Last night, I started the bike fine. Went out for a half hour ride, stopped the bike for an hour, and wouldn't start. So I bump started it. Rode for 1 minute, stopped the bike, and turned it on without a problem. This is really annoying!!!!

Thanks for everyone's help so far! Let me know if there is anything else!!!

I think i'm having the same issue, except my starter turns a couple of times, very slowly.

I'm lost, but I'm still ****** about it, so I"m not exactly thinking clearly.

most likely the RR....I just replaced my stator 2 weeks ago and then battery was going dead....my new RR cam this morning and installed and was driving around today for about 3 hours making frequent stops.....and symtoms are gone!!!!!!

fuel pump?

I went to start up my bike, and wouldn't start. Tries to turn, but nothing. So I tested the battery, and it reads fine. Put it on the tender anyway, for about 10 minutes, until the green light went on and it was fully charged. Put the battery back in the bike, and it started one shot.

Went out for a bit with a couple of buds. When I was ready to leave about 2 hours later, it wouldn't start. So I push started it, and let it idle for no more than 45 seconds, and shut it off.... just to see if it would start again. And it did.

So the issue seems to be happening more frequent. Once a day it seems. And I remember this happening when I first bought the bike.... and after a battery replacement, it was the R/R.

But the funny thing, is that the volt tests all show up fine.

I think I might just buy a R/R anyway, because this is boggling my mind.