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Im sure this has been asked several times, but I need to know if the flow of traffic is STOPPED, not moving at all (under 5kmh), is it legal to pass them ?
I understand that this can be dangerous, but ive conclude that it is safe providing the cars are all stopped, and you move in going slow enough to stop if they decide to block your path.
EDIT: I want to add, traffic completely stopped, not moving at all, red light stopped.
Not legal. It got a rider an HTA172 conviction in Kitchener not too long ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanobots
nom...nom...nom...someone pass the butter...
I was not in that class...
Not legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanobots
You can conclude its safe, but if you are asking if its legal. the answer is NO.
N
O
NO
Actually, as I remember the judgment, it was the rider's inability to determine that other traffic had stopped, which he admitted to during cross, that resulted in his conviction.Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodish
But filtering is also illegal.
So if your making a right turn at a red you can't ride to the right and make the turn?Yes you do have to spell it out for me on occasion.Sorry
That's spelled out in the HTA. Splitting and filtering get into a whole different can o' worms.Quote:
Originally Posted by matt123
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2009/2009oncj620/2009oncj620.html
The court's ruling actually noted that the rider could not see if the stopped cars he was passing to the right were actually stopped while waiting to make a left turn, or were just stopped because of the traffic light ahead of them. That inability took away any potential defence that he was passing to the right of left-turning traffic as permitted by HTA 150.(1)(a) http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sta...8_e.htm#s150s1Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob MacLennan
Absent that defence, the court determined that the following took place, each point of which applies to passing on the right whether you do it between lanes of same-direction traffic or between the curb and traffic in the right lane. That would cover both filtering and lane-splitting.
Quote:
[42] Mr Bunda also changed his story on the left turn signals of the cars stopped at the traffic lights. Initially, he testified that all the cars (although he was unsure as to how many there actually were – 2 or 3) had their left turn signals on when stopped. However, under cross examination by Mr Cotter he finally switched his story and admitted he couldn’t see the turn signals of any other than the stopped car immediately in front of him.
[43] Mr Bunda testified that when passing the cars on the right, he maintained a speed of 5 to 15 kph and did not have to manoeuvre to get around the car’s mirrors.
...........
[47] Therefore, I accept Officer’s Morrow testimony that Mr Bunda’s front wheel was within 2 feet of the lead motorcycle, as he travelled down Lancaster Street. I further accept the officer’s testimony that Mr Bunda was in such close proximity to the cars he passed on the right that he had to weave to maneuvre around their mirrors.
..........
[50] In my view, the actions of Mr Bunda were not consistent with a mere error in judgment. His pattern both of driving in close proximity to the lead motorcycle on Lancaster Street coupled with his passing the cars on the right was consistent with a lack of due care and attention and without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway. He departed from the standard of care which a reasonable and prudent driver would follow.
[51] I now consider whether he endangered any person by ‘driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to drive, without justification, as close as possible to another vehicle’. In my view, he did endanger himself, the other motorcyclists and persons in the cars stopped at the traffic light by being in such close proximity to other vehicles. With a distance of only 2 feet from the lead motorcycle he would have had no time to take appropriate evasive action had the lead motorcyclist swerved to his right. A collision would have been likely. Similarly, had any person be it a child or an adult opened his or her car door when Mr Bunda passed to the right, that person or Mr Bunda may have been injured. As I found above, there was no room for Mr Bunda’s motorcycle to be to the right of the cars and as such there would be no expectation on the part of a person opening a car door that a motorcycle would suddenly appear beside them.
.........
[54] Mr Bunda committed an offence under s. 172(1) of the Highway Traffic Act, as specifically set out in s. 3.8.iii of O.Reg. 455/07.
[55] A conviction will be registered.
If there is one ridiculous law over here this has to be it.
Given that the amount of motorcycles on the Ontario roads is pretty small, I really don't understand why filtering is illegal, not lane splitting, filtering.
Motorcycles are obviously smaller than cars (well the ones that aren't Electra Glides, that is) so would filtering not allow an overall shorter lines at traffic lights that are EVERY 100 METERS??
In most (probably all) European Countries filtering is a norm, there must be a reason why here that is not the case?
The fact that there are so few motorcycles, in Ontario, is actually a point in favour of having both filtering and splitting be illegal. Drivers don't have enough exposure, to know how to react to them.
Whats the big deal about waiting behind other traffic like everyone else on the road?
It's not a big deal....but it can be beneficial at times to move to the front of the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torren
Too bad it's not allowed.
Had someone whom I passed earlier, pull up through the right turn lane and pass a bunch of cars.
At other intersections, he went up the left turn lane.
Net result was that I had to pass him twice on a one lane highway, before he would stay passed.
Once he was ahead he would drive slower than most normal traffic, catching back up where there were lights.
ask anyone that's been rear-ended while stopped at a light what the big deal is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torren
http://gallery.drfaulken.com/d/9403-...ar+ended-1.jpg
A good reason to leave a manoeuvring gap, between you and the vehicle in front of you, and be aware of what's going on behind you at a stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob MacLennan
very interesting reading, i just read the whole thing
so what I gather is that if you can safely pass the cars on the right to make a right turn or go straight thru ... if :
A. you can safely move pass them without them opening there doors on you (you can't collide with something without due safety)
B. you can do this if you can visually verify all cars are turning left
There are some of us who think it would be better and saferQuote:
Originally Posted by Torren
"Lane splitting supporters also state that the US DOT FARS (Fatality Analysis Reporting System) database shows that fatalities from rear end collisions into motorcycles are 30% lower in California than in Florida or Texas, states with similar riding seasons and populations but which do not lane split" (source: Wikipedia)
Bottom line, as cities get more and more paralized with traffic and congestion, this practice becomes the norm, and even if it is illegal, it is not enforced anymore. I think Toronto is getting there.
How much higher are they from the front and side, in California? Numbers are a wonderful thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcosSantiago
Front and side? They are not higher. What makes you think they would be higher?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob MacLennan
Here are the numbers, but these are totals (actually, click on the link below, it may be better if you take a look yourself, because it is the first time I try to get data out of this system):
CALIFORNIA
Front 138
Left Side 15
Right Side 13
Rear 9
TEXAS 2009
Front 122
Left Side 14
Right Side 4
Rear 21
FLORIDA 2009
Front 129
Left Side 14
Right Side 14
Rear 16
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Vehicl...torcycles.aspx
Population (can't find total number of registered motorcycles by state, so these are totals too, but it can be safely assumed that there are more motorcycles in California than in Texas or Florida)
CALIFORNIA: 37,253,956
TEXAS: 25,145,561
FLORIDA: 18,801,310